Chris Whitty - Covid vaccination like the flu programme

[doireallyneedaname]

Did anyone else feel nervous hearing this?

When asked how they plan to roll out mass vaccination every year (if need be), a possibility he mentioned was only vaccinating those at high risk, in the same way we do the flu programme annually.

As a healthy 30-something this makes me feel incredibly nervous, especially with the risks known to healthy individuals and the severity of long covid becoming clear.

If this happens, do you think we’d be able to pay for a vaccine as we are able to do with the flu jab?

OP it makes me nervous too. I'm in my 40s with no underlying conditions but have health anxiety and am terrified of catching covid. If I couldn't have a vaccine moving forward I don't know what I'd do.

I get the concern about long covid it has been dramatically underplayed.

I know one very healthy youngish man who had it before the first wave (before we knew what it was) and is now practically disabled. He is considered to have had "mild" as he didnt have inpatient treatment at the time. Another friend (in healthcare) is two months down the line, still signed off work and being referred to a long covid clinic. Again "mild" covid, no hospitalization. Isreal are finding their general covid rates coming down but have had to set up their first paediatric intensive care specialist as they are seeing the age of patients dropping. Those who are downplaying the long term impacts of covid need to give their heads a wobble.

I suspect as the more serious end of covid becomes less pressing there will be more capacity to assess and address the "minor" end. I also think eventually the roll out of annual vaccines will be general as opposed to targeted.

OP pharmacies and GP order their flu jabs in advance. What they didn't expect was the government to tell those over 50 to have them and the up take to increase which is why they ran out of stock and some pharmacies put the price up.

If you want an ongoing Covid jab when we can pay for it then you will need to book at a pharmacy in summer - I did this with the flu jab.

Unfortunately that’s the way free at the point of delivery healthcare works though - it is in effect limited by cost. And the cost/benefit ratio of the vaccine being free I guess would be decided as not worth it if they moved to a similar system re free access as per flu ( and of course for many reasons they may not! It’s just one option).

This might be a silly question but say this does happen and we only vaccinate the vulnerable moving forward, will being out of the other side of the pandemic make a difference? As in, it won’t be spreading like crazy so those who have a good chance of a mild illness will largely be fine without a jab once we are out of the eye of the storm, as it were?

I know it’s not comparable to flu, but most years i don’t have the flu jab, and I’ve only had flu once in my life. Is the logic behind the (hypothetical) future only vaccinating the vulnerable something along those lines?

@ilikebooksandplants Also, won’t it have a chance to spread through the unvaccinated and mutate, potentially evading the vaccines given to those high risk?

Herd immunity will protect
unvaccinated people
You can pay if you like but it won't be necessary.

If we suppress cases to very low levels then your chance of catching COVID will be very low and therefore your chance of being very ill with it as a young fit healthy person will be minuscule

The reason we hear of younger people in ICUs now is that a small chance x a very large number of people infected still works out to a big number. In future when we get cases down it will be a small chance x a small number = very few young people really ill.

We need to get vaccination levels high and keep measures in place until cases are very low and then have effective track and trace to contain it to low levels and then we can relax and get back to normal because the chances of being infected will be low.

"If this happens, do you think we’d be able to pay for a vaccine as we are able to do with the flu jab?"

I would think so. The only reason it isn't happening now is due to limited availability/production of the vaccine. I'd assume that in future years they'd manufacture enough for the vulnerable and for those who want to pay, so the problem wouldn't arise.

Yes really hope available privately.
Also because
We dont know what repeated infections will do
It would be ridiculous to effectively protect the old and health issues people while the younger population incl children every year get more complications. More diabetic kids. Apparently ons says 70k long covid kids already .
And the grandparents 65-77 are most likely to catch it from us too.

I think they would likely give it to under 21 as they are some of the biggest spreaders. Then arent pregnant women higher risk plus all oc those hospital and gp appts and likely stays..
Also people who dont get sick pay wont want months off sick.
And i agree you are likely to need it for travel. Can you imagine the insurance you would need to go to usa??? I wouldnt be surprised if the cost of that rockets.

Here are some stats about Long COVID

covid.joinzoe.com/post/long-covid

10% is higher I think that actual and often I think downplays the long term effects of any virus (Post Viral Fatigue has been massively downplayed over the years. Any virus can last awhile).

As a PP said unlike Flu we will all have a jab now - likely to give us some protection.

I also think that the variant stuff has taken away from the fact the Covid is far more stable than flu as well.

I would hope actually that it isnt allowed to be paid for privately - that means that those of us who can afford to pay will take it away from those that do. That should not be at the expense of the set of people we have just vaccinated now in the first wave who should be getting it first

Makes me feel thrilled as I'm a teacher and currently not a priority however I do get the flu vaccine yearly because I provide inimitate care (teach in early years)...

I'm not worried. As a 30 year old female my risk of hospitalization in about 1 in 5000 and risk of death is one on 250,000.
I probably would pay for a vaccine if it was available, which I expect it will be from next Winter, but it depends on the cost

If we are to continue down the route of a yearly vaccine for all then by the time they have finished vaccinating everyone in the country they will be straight into doing the booster jabs for all those vaccinated at the beginning of the year in a continual loop so it really isn't sustainable going forward - when will the health service have time to do all the other routine vaccines and treatments if they are permenantly based at mass vaccine hubs.

We really do just have to accept the fact covid will forevermore be in circulation across the globe and learn to live with it and whatever health consequences that may bring. We should count ourselves lucky that we are living in a rich enough country to find ourselves in the situation of what to do going forward into next year - Africa isn't due to have completed their vaccinations until 2023!

I am asthmatic so is my son who has been on a ventilator before due to having the flu.
We both had covid. He sneezed for a few days and that was it. I felt pretty rubbish for 3 weeks then tired but fine for the next 3.

I suspect we had it back in March as I felt v similar then.

So many of my friends had it over the same period and everyone of them is fine now. Not one of them had to attend hospital or was admitted. One had antibiotics for a secondary chest infection afterwards.

I suffer from mild health anxiety and have been really worried about covid and long Covid for almost a whole year. Had Covid in January and it was really mild. It was honestly a relief to stop worrying about it all.

What I meant to say was it really made me realise that I am statistically low risk! So do keep that in mind.

yeah, I have health probs and classed as high risk, spent all year worrying about Covid and being really careful and got it at New Year, I would think I got off lightly BUT I am still worried regarding the mutant strains and getting it again! This past year has badly affected my mental health

@veryverydrunk that is understandable to be worried about the mutant strains. I think for me, contracting it showed me how all out of my control it is and has even freed me from worry about the mutant strains. That and hoping I have some antibodies and T cell immunity :)

@IrishMamaMia

Yes, hoping I might relax easier when I get my vaccine, I think I should be in Group 6

I think as more and better treatments are found then this should balance out just fine.

I understand your concern OP, I'm in my late 30s and really don't want to get covid - however small my chances are of it being a serious disease. I know others my age who had it and some are suffering from long term issues now.

I don't see wanting the vaccination as a sign of being unusually anxious really. It's just one of the many things I do on a daily, weekly, monthly or annual basis to protect myself from all kinds of things. I mean burglaries are rare but I still lock the door, and gas explosions are rare but I still get the boiler serviced every year, so...

Anyway, I'm just concentrating on waiting for my initial vaccination and then I'll worry about future years in the future... It's a good thing so many in our age groups don't seem to worry as it hopefully means more vaccinations available for those of us who want it and can pay privately! I'll be first in the queue.

@nordica See you there

I agree op! I'm hoping for a vaccine moving forward. I do suffer health anxiety but, watching the media and listening to government briefings through out the last year has only added to my fears and worries. I'm not blaming anybody for feeling how I do, but surely it could be available to those of us that wish to have it. Those that don't see the need for it don't have to. I know the risks of dying from covid are small, but it still worries me.

If you’re a healthy 30 year old the risk to you is negligible.

[quote doireallyneedaname]@siestalady Well, I do. An estimated 10% go on to develop long Covid and 70% of those with long Covid have damage of at least 1 organ - not for me thanks![/quote]
I will eat my hat if this ends up being correct. It is in no way the case that 10% have Long Covid - I know lots of people of all ages who've had Covid, some of them who have all sorts of chronic health problems and disabilities, and almost every single one is genuinely fine now. I say 'almost' because one person had it in November and still gets tired after a long day of work and has a bit of a cough. That is normal after other viruses too and there is a very high chance that one year down the line he will he alright. Another person who really did seem to have serious ongoing issues recovered after 3 months and is running up hills now. This was someone who was getting very breathless for ages just walking short distances. No doubt it was horrible and worrying at the time but it has resolved itself.

You can track long Covid on MN too - last year there were a small amount of threads of people coming on and discussing some significant issues that were lingering. More and more those tailed away with people posting on the threads that they really felt much better a few months down the line. It just takes time. Yes, there are a very small minority who haven't been that lucky and society needs to look at what issues they're suffering and why, but if this was a really big problem it would be much more in evidence here and on other social media platforms. Even the studies showing organ 'damage' - you have to be so careful making assumptions having read them. Some people seem to have some degree of lung damage but there is other evidence that resolves over time. Some people seem to have some minor heart inflammation - again, it is likely damage that will be seen to resolve as we keep studying those people.

I wouldn't say long Covid is nothing to worry about at all, but certainly the odds are extremely high that if you get ill, you will be absolutely ok. Your feeling are valid but your assessment of the risk of this does seem to be slightly skewed on this matter (that's fair enough - most humans can't gauge the risk of all sorts of things). If we move forward and only vaccinate certain groups that is because the medical evidence suggests this virus genuinely poses a very low threat to most people. The actual evidence around long Covid will have been taken into consideration when that decision is made. People making these decision - like Chris Whitty - are ethical and have integrity.