Is working from home going to be forever?

[Inthevirtualwaitingroom]

i believe it may be,
it doesnt apply to me but i am concerned about the welfare of those who it does affect.
their social skills
their physical health
it is also a consideration when moving home

I've been working from home this lockdown having been on maternity leave last year, and while some aspects of WFH have been nice, I've learned that I wouldn't like to have a WFH job permanently.

Because i'm less bored, i'm finding it too easy to forget to leave the house at all. It's a choice of whether to take a break and get out for a walk in daylight, or crack on while i'm feeling inspired, and not have to work after the children have gone to bed. Add that to the extra calories at lunchtime and it's not looking good for my baby weight!

I hope not because some of the service provided by those in customer facing roles (insurance, utilities, etc) that are wfh is terrible and it is often trotted out as an excuse for poor service, so hopefully they will go back to their offices as soon as possible.

I think a lot of organisations will take personal preference into account.

What is interesting is what it means longer term for transport, local business in cities, Friday post work drinks etc.

I hope it means less suburban apathy! I have wfh for years and tried to set up social things locally.

It is for me, as I was made redundant due to Covid and now my new job is as a home worker

I agree too.

And some people will have to accept that they are needed in the office at times. Dh was dealing with some lawyers, and the partner was slagging off his underlings who had made some mistakes. He, meanwhile, was in his Devon pad nowhere near the office.

Also reminds me of when I had to deal with a teacher who wanted to wfh - before covid had ever been heard of. She had the idea that the infant-school kids would all be in the classroom under the care of the TA, and she would set work etc - on full salary. Nice try.

I'll be going back once I've been vaccinated (Group 6) I should think. I've enjoyed it and have done more work but someone in the office has to do my physical paperwork and it's not fair on her although she's been brilliant and gracious about it.

The grass is always greener and I shall miss the leisurely start to the day and guilt free tea breaks and availability for online shopping deliveries etc. But I will be glad to be back in the office.

I think it will be for me.

I work for local government and they are always looking to save money. One way being closing buildings.
I think they will limit the numbers in the office and teams will need to pre-book desks therefore making it more likely we'll only go in when necessary or once a fortnight for a team face to face catch up.

I agree with @Kazzyhoward -- I think there's going to be a jumble of 'policies' over the next year or so.

However I do think in the medium to long term, office culture will reassert itself for the majority.

At the moment, the pressure to make working spaces 'covid safe' has a physical and financial impact: rotas, screens, signage, extra cleaning and so on. This puts a big tick in the wfh column. But once the majority of people are vaccinated, the need for this kind of hygiene theatre will reduce, or might possibly disappear entirely. At that point I think the pendulum will start to swing the other way again.

DH advises C-suite teams on organisational effectiveness. Up to now, his clients have all been very positive about wfh -- for themselves. But after a year the cracks are starting to show and it's becoming evident that in a lot of cases, permanent wfh is no way to run a business. (Certainly a business of more than about six people.)

The younger and more junior staff are really struggling. Many of them are stuck in houseshares and struggle to get privacy or reliable internet. Productivity is up for the directors and people with specialisms, but way down for less experienced staff and trainees. Company culture is weakening and they're struggling to recruit younger/junior staff. Certain projects are faltering. People are siloing themselves within their job roles and becoming less t-shaped.

What a lot of companies have decided is to make the right noises about flexibility now while public opinion largely supports it, but with the aim that in a year or so they'll put more pressure on to be back in offices full-time. This is certainly the stated aim of several of DH's clients.

@PammieDooveOrangeJoof

If you wfh and your office is based in London why would your employer still pay a London salary? This is the situation I am in and many others will probably find themselves at some point in the near future. Our team will be phased out and replaced by people in a cheaper area. If everyone is wfh why will the company care where you are and pay for someone in a more expensive living area? We are going to be screwed if this is the death of London working but we still love in London and pay London rent/mortgages and prices etc.

Exactly. Most people commute into London anyhow and don't tend to live in London. They chose to work in the city for more money, rather than work for a local company. Be interesting to see what happens to salaries. London waiting would certainly stop.

@Onedaysomedaynowadays

I think it depends on the role. I have a senior level role and run a team. My job is becoming almost unbearable at the moment. I'm in Zoom calls from morning to night so I have to do any real work in the evening, I cant supervise my juniors effectively, culture is struggling and morale is low and there's no way to get a quick answer on anything. One of my juniors however is pushing to work from home forever because she doesn't have so many meetings, had a long commute and now has way more time to prepare herself a healthy lunch everyday/exercise etc. She can't see that to enable that for her I'm damn near killing myself to keep everything else in the team moving and that's she's just not learning enough by never seeing anyone. Work have issued a new policy requiring people in the office 2/3 days per week and she's pushing back strongly on it. I don't know what to do

If the business needs her in, the business needs her in. There's no business case to support her permanently working from home.

Her lunch and commuting arrangements are a matter for her.

It would have to be scaled back, which is no bad thing seeing as pollution levels have dropped in the past year.

How much of that is due to public transport being scaled back vs car usage declining sharply in the first lockdown? Genuine question, the answer to which probably depends a bit on where you are. I don't see it being a great outcome if a decline in public transport leads to an increase in private cars on the road.

I hope the choice remains. It's so much better for family life.

Throughout history cities have been important for innovation. I can't see us not having some places where people come together, its how we learn and develop ideas. Things will change and I wonder if we'll have more of a blend. Pre-covid my commute to school was much quicker on a Thursday and Friday, the M3 less busy, so I'd say that people were already doing a mixture where they could.

Of course lots of jobs can't be done from home and the hospitality that serves the people working in universities, factories, hospitals, courts etc. those city centre facilities will remain. People want to be connected. As a teacher my salary is the same where I live on the M3 corridor as it would be in Lincolnshire where property is much cheaper, but I love being able to get to London and Reading and Winchester easily and I'm near family here too, covid hasn't changed any of that, there will be people are able to move away from towns, but there will be lots of people like me who like to be in or near cities.

I think public transport will be fine, maybe even more important. In London where its essential it's state run. All the trains have now been taken over by the state. They might change a bit, but a combination of an aging population and climate emergency means we have to keep mass transit. I personally think that in the next 10-20 years cars will become so expensive lots of people won't own them and living near good transport links will be increasingly important.

@LadyCounterblast - what does “t-shaped” mean? (It sounds like a phrase I could usefully drop into conversation at work!)

I agree with a lot of what your DH has observed about the cracks starting to show. One interesting side effect of WfH in my place has been the rise of the ‘conspiratorial meeting’ - with the benefit of the fact that no conversation is overheard, people have more freedom to complain about management/colleagues etc. It was much rarer to have that kind of ‘no holds barred’ conversation in the office.

Another side-effect is the ‘just invite everyone’ meeting. Because meeting space places no upper limit on attendance we have lots of meetings where the invite list has mushroomed and they become completely ineffective.

One thing I don’t see discussed much is the practicalities of a ‘blended’ approach. People discuss it like it’s an easy best of both worlds but in practice it is hard to get right. pre-pandemic I was 2 days a week from home and things like blended meetings (mix of in-person and people on audio/zoom) were dreadful. If everyone comes in ‘2-3 days a week for meetings’ - does everyone come in on the same 2-3 days (then you still need desk space for everyone!) or is it spread through the week (in which case getting the right people in office on any given day is a huge headache).

Brilliant to have fewer cars during the rush hour. Not possible for many workers, but I'd do it if I could.

@Bubbinsmakesthree A t-shaped person is someone who has a single deep specialism (the vertical bit of a capital T) alongside a range of broader supporting skills that are less deep.

I think the risk from wfh and siloing is that the broader bits fall away because people tend to focus on their area of specialism or interest. But over time this makes them less flexible and useful.

Yes I know exactly what you mean about the conspiratorial sub-meeting! Usually on WhatsApp or Signal or a sub-group email by the sounds of it. One of DH's clients calls it 'the backchannel'. They know it goes on but are leaving it alone for now. People need to vent, etc

It will be nice to not have so many cars on the road but there would have to be guidelines and support so people have the equipment they need for correct posture etc, maybe grants/loans for a garden office if a confidential space is needed.

Many jobs will be offshored overseas instead.

@Donoteatthekittens

Many jobs will be offshored overseas instead.

I work in the IT sector where off-shoring has been away of life from the 00s. There are still jobs in the UK.

What I've found in the last 15 years, but particularly in the last 10 years, is that family and friends who are also in the same sector like myself work more in international teams.

In other words companies use the fact that we can work virtually to get skills from around the globe.

Also you forget that one current advantage of being in a Westernised country is that we (mostly) have good utility and broadband infrastructure. Once countries achieve that their living standards go up and so does their cost of living, therefore wages have to go up to compensate.

As pps have observed, public transport will take a hit, and city centres and all the small businesses which rely on workers.

But small businesses in other areas may benefit. Our little non-town centre “high street” was much busier last summer than the summer before (I was on mat leave the summer before). DH and I would go for lunch in a little local cafe which again was much busier with people on their lunch breaks than it ever was when I was on mat leave. I imagine small businesses like that would benefit. Our local little shops and cafes certainly appeared to.

Yes I know exactly what you mean about the conspiratorial sub-meeting! Usually on WhatsApp or Signal or a sub-group email by the sounds of it. One of DH's clients calls it 'the backchannel'. They know it goes on but are leaving it alone for now. People need to vent, etc

What do you mean, they’re leaving it alone for now? They can’t do anything about people talking on a private WhatsApp.

Companies will save money. Smaller offices, less rent to pay, reduced utility bills, more hot desking.

A friend is involved in office moves and his company is involved in office strip-outs and they have been really busy since September. Plenty of companies closing smaller offices leading to support workers losing jobs.

Unfortunately, I can't do my job properly when working from home. If I could, I would.

WFH has both advantages and disadvantages for me

Advantages
Less time and money spent on commute
Shower/make up not always needed when WFH

Disadvantages
I only have wifi at the front of the house, meaning I have to use a fold out table, which once I've got laptop, phone, diary, notepad and pen, tea, is full up. The dog often comes in and swipes something off with her tail

My husband (retired) cannot use living room/wifi when I'm working for confidentiality, and has to spend the day in the kitchen

Less fresh air/exercise. I always make the time when I'm WFH to do the afternoon walk with the dog, but this will be about 4.30/5 so in the winter I'm gettign some fresh air and exercise but zero VitaminD

I work as a CPN and have to carry out assessments of new referrals. Currently these are mainly phone assessments. I don't like that and prefer face to face, there's so much you miss on a telephone assessment.

I get distracted far easier at home and have to force myself to focus.

Currently, I work 4 days a week, with 1-2 days in the office and the rest at home. I think I'd rather 3 days in the office and 1 at home.

@AlwaysLatte

It will be nice to not have so many cars on the road but there would have to be guidelines and support so people have the equipment they need for correct posture etc, maybe grants/loans for a garden office if a confidential space is needed.

Would people really want to take out loans to provide themselves with the space they need to do the work their employer wants them to do and that they previously had office space for? And grants, they would have to be employer funded, not government obviously.