Concern for BAME health staff not taking up the vaccine

[Baileysforchristmas]

This is going to be an issue:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56069325

@OverTheRainbow88

You can’t just expect years and year of mistrust in scientists, Government, medical testing to suddenly disappear and all members of society suddenly trust the Government has their best interest at heart and accept the vaccine.

I can’t speak for all those people lumped into the heading of BAME, but black people have been dis it step against, medically tested; black women are more likely to die in childbirth etc etc for years and now suddenly they should trust those in charge?

BAME person here.

We are not a homegenous grouping having the same experiences. So I think your remark is very patronising and if I was being stroppy could be said to be racist, but I won't.

Everyone has their reasons for wanting to get vaccinated or not wanting to.

I myself just think, fair enough if you don't want to be vaccinated. As my mum used to say, those who don't hear, will just have to feel. In other words, they will just have to suffer the consequences.

I wouldn’t want to be treated by someone who hasn’t had the vaccine.

Why though? If you’ve had the vaccine yourself why does it matter whether the nurse looking after you has or hasn’t?

@Gettinggrumpier

Did you miss the part where I said “ I can’t speak for all those people lumped into the heading of BAME”... and then gave the reason for which some of my black family may take a while to accept the vaccine.

I am really uncomfortable about the term BAME. Are there many who happily self identify this way or is it just a way for white purple to describe others?

white people :)

I dont call myself bame! Noone sane would surely?!

@pinkhappy

I hate the term.

@Baileysforchristmas

The thing is the less people who take up the vaccine the longer we are in lockdown and surely people who hcp are the people who should be taking the vaccine more than anyone else.

So if lockdown continues because of not enough (mass) take up of the vaccine, we are essentially being forced, as a country to vaccinate. So much for civil liberty.

As my mum used to say, those who don't hear, will just have to feel. In other words, they will just have to suffer the consequences

Your mum sounds like a wise lady, Gettinggrumpier, but it's the "consequences" that worry me

We can talk for ever about the reasons for refusal but the virus doesn't care and it's here now, so what happens to the refusers in terms of employment, access to services and all the rest?
I don't imagine the answers will be easy if they involve more exclusion, but what's the alternative if we continue to say the vaccines are needed to protect everyone else?

As long as we hopefully have enough take up for herd immunity (and the R number is fairly low and the vaccine is fairly effective so herd immunity should be achievable) who cares?

I do agree that there has been the whiff of racism about many aspects of the pandemic, from blaming Chinese people to this.

As long as we hopefully have enough take up for herd immunity (and the R number is fairly low and the vaccine is fairly effective so herd immunity should be achievable) who cares?

I agree in principle; however since the level of vaccination needed seems to be going up all the time - at least according to the scientists - doesn't even that risk fingers being pointed at communities where refusal's higher?

The new variants probably have a higher R0 number, yes. Which means take up needs to be higher. But honestly, until everyone who wants, has one, just keep jabbing people until you run out of arms. Then we'll know. Not tremendously scientific I suppose.

@pinkhappy

Are there any people in health care who have refused the vaccination here? It would be great to hear directly from them.

I have not even bothered to read the link. I do wonder if this is false info.... All the frontline staff that are BAME have taken the vaccine at work. So I’m not sure which “BAME” group they are referring to.

I have cousins who clean in the leicestershire hospital, they haven't had the vaccine and won't for a while yet.
They are White and BAME so no doubt counted as white refusal hence skewing the BAME refusal figures.
So the reporting and figures are worthless.
Not to mention that BAME covers so many races, with diverse cultures.
Imo as an activist and campaigner the term is good to include all races when discussing racism.

I think uptake will grow (among all ethnicities) as the rollout proceeds and the vaccine becomes normalized. I know so many people who said they were not going to get the vaccine and are now preparing to. Seeing other people around you get the vaccine and seeing how happy and relieved they are afterwards tends to sway the doubters, IME.

At the end of the day, nobody can be forced, though. There will always be a small % who refuse vaccines.

I just hope that the hard core of vaccine refuses realizes that once COVID19 outbreaks start to become things that basically break out among clusters of unvaccinated people (which will almost certainly be the case by 2022), from that point nobody is going to sympathize or continue following restrictions to protect them.

As long as we hopefully have enough take up for herd immunity (and the R number is fairly low and the vaccine is fairly effective so herd immunity should be achievable) who cares?

It's not as simple as that. If you have geographical pockets with large numbers of unvaccinated people (which can easily happen if vaccine refusal correlates with things like ethnicity, religion, class or other things that tend to cluster together) you are going to see localized outbreaks in those areas.

Like I say though, I actually think vaccine takeup will rise a lot among groups that currently show a lot of hesitancy. So hopefully this will not be a problem....

@MrsTerryPratchett

As long as we hopefully have enough take up for herd immunity (and the R number is fairly low and the vaccine is fairly effective so herd immunity should be achievable) who cares?

I do agree that there has been the whiff of racism about many aspects of the pandemic, from blaming Chinese people to this.

The Communist Part of the People's Republic of China, in its highest echelons, is composed 100% of Chinese people, as far as I know. In your view, we, and possibly the World Health Organisation can't criticise the CPPRC in terms of its handling of the initial stages of the contagion because of this fact, because we are unable to shake off our innate racism?

Lucky for the CPPRC, eh?

I feel really uncomfortable about this BAME blame surrounding vaccinations.

This news story is starting to feel quite finger pointing and prejudiced.

@Devlesko

I have cousins who clean in the leicestershire hospital, they haven't had the vaccine and won't for a while yet. They are White and BAME so no doubt counted as white refusal hence skewing the BAME refusal figures. So the reporting and figures are worthless. Not to mention that BAME covers so many races, with diverse cultures. Imo as an activist and campaigner the term is good to include all races when discussing racism.

You’re asked to identify ethnicity for yourself so they’d be recorded accordingly

I only learned v recently of the Pfizer medical trials in Nigeria that resulted in the deaths of children. Presumably that was headline news in Nigeria, but I don’t remember hearing about it here (I’m sure it was reported but I didn’t see it). It’s not a huge leap to think that the British Nigerian community might be less likely to take up the vaccine as a result. The attempt to paint them as “refusing” the vaccine or being “hard to reach”, rather than acknowledging and addressing valid concerns, seems counter to a lot of the views expressed during the BLM movement.

I’m sure there’s other examples I don’t know about. I don’t claim to be particularly well informed.

I strongly feel that vaccination should be a requirement of some jobs such as care staff and HCPs. No jab, no job. I wouldn’t want to be treated by an unvaccinated person.

That's old data and from one particular trust, it's best to leave more time before declaring an issue. Noting any lower take-up to address concerns is useful for the NGS, the vaccine programme, government and community leaders. IMO it's not really anyone else's business until we're many months down the line to know if initial measures taken by those responsible have worked or not.

There has certainly been a lot of dodgy anti-vaccine crap targeted at the Pakistani community, most likely from the same wankers who said hospitals weren't safe back in the first wave; community leaders have been doing a lot to address that, but it'll take time to trickle through. www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/fake-news-circulating-communities-putting-4895051

*NHS not NGS

I'm hoping the majority of people who aren't comfortable about taking up vaccine, will accept when they can see others living and enjoying their lives with little risk.
Unfortunately those who are in the BAME, who live in large households and mix households (which apparently is still happening locally despite lockdown and keeping numbers high in two areas here) will end up creating their own herd immunity as they'll get it and have antibodies.