Vaccine passports

[Jourdain11]

So, I'm genuinely not being disingenuous, but...

If the vaccine does not, or may not prevent transmission, what on earth is the point of a vaccine passport?

If visitors come to a country where Mich of the population is unvaccinated, they could still spread the virus to the unvaccinated, which would potentially become unwell.

If visitors who are unvaccinated come to a country where most have received the vaccination, it really wouldn't matter if they brought the virus in... because the vaccinated population would be protected against it anyway.

If a vaccinated person travels from a country where some are vaccinated and some aren't, they could potentially still contract the virus while abroad, host the virus assymptomatically, and bring it back to their home country, where they could infect vaccinated people.

It just seems like the biggest and most pointless waste of money to me. Or am I missing something?

It will only be a waste of money if it's brought in and found to be ineffective.
What do you suggest as an alternative? Open borders with no restrictions?
No cross border travel ever again?

No doubt someone will be able to reproduce one gif a cost 💷💷💷

At a cost

@Jourdain11

So, I'm genuinely not being disingenuous, but...

If the vaccine does not, or may not prevent transmission, what on earth is the point of a vaccine passport?

If visitors come to a country where Mich of the population is unvaccinated, they could still spread the virus to the unvaccinated, which would potentially become unwell.

If visitors who are unvaccinated come to a country where most have received the vaccination, it really wouldn't matter if they brought the virus in... because the vaccinated population would be protected against it anyway.

If a vaccinated person travels from a country where some are vaccinated and some aren't, they could potentially still contract the virus while abroad, host the virus assymptomatically, and bring it back to their home country, where they could infect vaccinated people.

It just seems like the biggest and most pointless waste of money to me. Or am I missing something?

Where have you read that the vaccine does not prevent transmission? All I am reading suggests it either does, or we do not know yet.

They don’t know about transmission yet. Not enough data either way.

But it might get mean that you are unlikely to be hospitalised, hence taking up a Covid bed elsewhere?

It seems like they will be introduced whether anyone likes it or not. But to be honest after all the sacrifices people have already made it seems such a small matter.

Moderna scientist: "We are going to find our vaccines reduce transmission. It was never really a matter of whether they did or not, because we are seeing evidence they can. It’s just a matter of by how much and having that percentage. "

Or am I missing something?

You're missing the emerging evidence that it does reduce transmission:

news.sky.com/story/oxford-vaccine-may-have-67-effect-on-transmission-and-protection-remains-for-three-month-jab-interval-12206734

www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-may-reduce-transmission

The vaccine might prevent transmission. We just don’t know yet, although early indications are looking promising. Even if it does only prevent severe illness I’d imagine it’ll be useful for travel insurance purposes.

The reason is we are fed up and want to travel. Life is full of risks, personally I think once the first 6 groups are vaccinated, the risks are significantly lower and life should return to normal. I've had covid, was fine, quite willing to isolate at home for 10 days after a holiday

It just seems like a fig leaf to me. Wouldn't testing and/or isolation be more effective?

And thanks for linking the evidence about the vaccine decreasing transmission. That is positive. But it still seems misguided to plan such a major thing on the basis of maybe/possibly/evidence suggests.

@Jourdain11

It just seems like a fig leaf to me. Wouldn't testing and/or isolation be more effective?

Well yes but totally unworkable in normal times. Basically nobody could go on holiday or visit family or go abroad ever again.

If you have 100 vaccinated people coming into the country as opposed to 100 unvaccinated people, the former is not completely foolproof but enormously safer.
You’ve had to have a yellow fever certificate to visit certain countries for years. It’s no different really. The vaccine is not 100% effective.

Also testing on arrival might help and might become more widespread but it doesn’t help with people incubating the virus

For counties that achieve high levels of vaccination, transmission will/should plummet (herd immunity)
So whats the point of a vaccine passport for travel between these countries?
For countries with much lower vaccination rates, may not be wise to allow their citizens to travel.

But practically, how is a system going to be set up by summer, that is recognised internationally?
Even if it were possible, i'm pretty sure the u49s will be pretty pissed off if older people can travel and they cannot.

I feel it's more a way of providing an alternative to testing and isolating. If everyone who went abroad has to test and isolate for their yearly holiday, the aviation may as well shut up shop now. It wont survive. A vaccine passport is nowhere as effective at reducing transmission or stopping the spread of strains from different countries, but test and isolate isnt a long term solution.

It's an idiotic idea that will be near impossible to implement. What if an individual has received medical advice not to have the vaccine? Will they be prevented from travelling overseas? Imagine the litigation.

What about those who hold a different passport and live abroad? Is it really workable to suggest that those individuals will be prevented from returning home if they haven't been vaccinated?

To take Europe as an example, the member states are still disputing the effectiveness of each vaccine. No way will they be able to agree on such a scheme in time for the summer.

Destination countries might insist on vaccine proof.

And possibly more difficult to get travel insurance without a vaccine as you know what insurance companies are like they don't like paying out.

Vaccine proof might exempt you from quarantine, and there still might be testing on 2 & 8th days of visit and on return or whatever the system is at the time.

I would be very surprised if Covid is not part of overseas travel for the next 2/3/4 years.

But overseas travel will remain a choice for leisure, so if you disagree with vaccine proof or don't want the vaccine you can still make that choice not to have it but it might mean you are limited to UK holidays for a while.

And if you have to travel for work you will need to perhaps talk to your boss and see if you can do your job without the overseas travel or in extreme cases change careers.

These might be the choices, but if UK airports and destination airports, and insurance companies and hotels etc etc go down the route of insisting on vaccine proof there won't be a choice if you want to get on the plane except not to travel. What exactly can anyone do about it if it comes in?

How would it work though? France is known for being anti vaccine, so are they going to demand other nations have the the vaccine coming into France but if you’re French you don’t have to? It’s a mine field, I can’t see it working.

There is data coming out of Israel and from the vaccine companies. The vaccines do prevent transmission to differing degrees. How long they provide immunity for only time will tell.

I knew vaccine passports would be brought in but I thought next year but looks likely it’ll be far sooner.

I’d imagine for Far East/Australasia it’ll be 100% condition of entry. For other countries eg U.K. won’t be required but by having one you’ll eventually save on cost of testing /quarantine. It’ll be one of other.

Vaccine uptake in U.K. is likely to diminish as we go down age groups. Not because of hesitancy more “I can’t be bothered, I’m busy, I’ve had Covid”

So Government can incentivise vax by vax passports negating need for expensive tests/quarantine........whilst not making them a requirement.

Dominic Raab said they haven't ruled out using Vaccine Passports to prevent people going into a supermarket. I am someone who does not want to have the experimental vaccine - why should I be denied food because of that?! This is terrifying to me.

For those saying it won’t happen I’m sure you’d have said last January that it would never be illegal to sit on park bench and drink coffee with a friend 😂.

Yellow fever vaccination is required already in some countries. I don’t see why people think it’s so unlikely many countries will introduce for Covid. It’s a logical step.

I have been wondering this. Also, why vaccinate children when they don't get very sick and vaccination doesn't prevent transmission? 'May prevent transmission' is not good enough really.