So, when do you think ‘wfh if you can’ will end?!

[Hairybaker]

The only upside of COVID for me has been no commute! Do you think it’ll be when you get vaccinated or when every adult has been vaccinated....or later?!
I know no one knows but just interested!

@Donoteatthekittens

poppycat10 - even before Covid, I was working for a large bank that was offshoring its entire digital banking workforce to Bangalore. City companies outsourcing secretarial roles to Eastern Europe. You can work from anywhere in the world now.

I’m hoping my job will be safe as you need to be a British citizen and undergo vetting for many civil service jobs. And many of the jobs requiring DV need staff to be in the office for some of the time to access certain systems so that can’t be offshored.

Exactly this. My husband works for one of the big banks and they've already started training people on Poland as they realised it's cheaper in the long run.

WFH didn't work for me, children were noisy and hard to engage in online learning, I can't rip myself in two and home school while picking up phone calls etc.

Also how can new employees integrate and get to know colleagues if you're just a face/voice at the end of a call?

@poppycat10

Its all very well companies wanting staff to work from home but for a lot of their staff its not feasible in the long term. People are working from bedrooms and kitchens in tiny houses. Two adults working from home in a tiny house - nightmare. It can't be sustained in the long term for a lot of families

It's difficult at the moment because people can only work from home. But once things open up again you can work in a library or a coffee shop or a co-working hub. Even if you have to pay to use a co-working desk, it may well be much cheaper and more convenient than commuting to an office - or investing in a garden office.

I don't really understand this - I am in meetings/on calls at least 75% of the day. There is just no way I could work in the library or a coffee shop. It only makes sense if you have the sort of job where you just work quietly on your laptop alone all day.

Can't stand WFH, constant noise from neighbours and nobody to speak to for days on end. I'm not learning anything from work (normally in a shared office so lots of unofficial mentoring) and there's none of the usual problem-solving we do together, you're on your own for it so less creative and less complete view of problems and tasks. Almost all my social contact is from work and I'm literally losing the will to live like this. It's just existing.

For security reasons I cannot work where anyone can overhear me who isn't in my team. Also having a double screen setup at home makes it feel like I am living at work, it takes up space that I want for other things and in general I really fucking hate working at home. I cannot wait to go back to the office.

I imagine the government's 'work from home if you can' advice will be dropped sometime in the summer. The issue on whether people go back to offices in significant numbers is to do with social distancing and the need to make offices 'Covid secure'. My employer has said that anyone who can WFH will be doing so until SD restrictions end as there simply isn't enough space for everyone under 'covid secure' guidelines. The 'covid secure' plan also involves no-one having any face to face meetings with others on site (so you still have to meet by Zoom), or talking in corridors or socialising! I think it will be spring 2022 before SD is dropped and places don't need to be made 'Covid secure'.

I've changed jobs during the pandemic to one which is permanent WFH, where the office is 170 miles away. The need to WFH made them realise they could recruit from anywhere in the U.K., rather than be tied to the very small pool of suitably-qualified / experienced people in their locality.

In addition, they've got rid of one office, so there isn't room for everybody in the building the still have either. This means hotdesking when people are allowed back in.

My office has always had a lot of space even before Covid and we’ve lost a couple of office staff from retirement/moving on since then.

There are two of us in my room and I reckon we’ve got 3-4 metres between us. The next room is 4 desks all at least 2 metres apart but currently only two working in there as 1 person retired and 1 moved department. The final office is the most crowded with 3 working in there 2m apart.

@Donoteatthekittens

Civil Service here, we are never going back full time! It’s all hot desking hubs now in the office now and only 50% of staff can be accommodated in the office at once. I imagine we will be in the office for 2 days a week.

Same here, pretty unlikely ever to all be expected in the office at once or every day - we will probably have 'team days' once a month or something but other than that work from home as much as we want.

I think the govt advice will be 'work from home if you can' and 'avoid mass transport' at least until the end of the year. Those who can walk or cycle to work are more likely to go in.

I've worked from home for the last 5 years and would never go back to working in an office. I hated commuting, I hated the constant noise (I have ADHD), I hated small talk with colleagues, I hated not being able to be flexible with my day. DH now works from home too and has been told it will almost certainly be a permanent thing. He also loves it. And this is with both of us in a 500sq ft flat.

I totally empathise with people who want to be back in the office and who find WFH negatively impacts their mental health, but can I just say that the office way of working has been the "default" for many years with little to no consideration or empathy for those of us whose mental health was negatively affected by working in a shared office - we were just expected to get on with it as that was the done thing.

I think I will go back one day a week. I am so much more effective on my own sat at my desk without a commute. I need to start cycling again though, I've cracked on two stone gain. Now to get the running trainers out of the box....

I hope my NDN has to go back to the office soon! It’s like neighbourhood watch now, her little head bobs up every time we leave the house! Just get on with your work ffs!

In my view, attitudes to WFH have changed permanently, for two reasons :

1, The tech works. Most people have fast broadband now, and Zoom / Teams have proved to be useful systems.

2, Employees have always wanted to WFH more, but workaholic / presenteeism obsessed bosses have always been the obstacle to it happening. Now they have seen that it can work well, and done it themselves, they will want it to continue so they can cut costs on office space.

I work in a university. I miss my colleagues, the students, the general buzz in the department. I miss those off the cuff conversations in corridors that lead to something awesome. You can't do that with a scheduled zoom call.

I hate having a desk in the corner of the kitchen with two screens that I can't hide away. My 'office' is always in view and I'm rubbish at switching off!

I'm a 15min cycle from campus and I can't WAIT to return. 🤞

@SallyOMalley

I work in a university. I miss my colleagues, the students, the general buzz in the department. I miss those off the cuff conversations in corridors that lead to something awesome. You can't do that with a scheduled zoom call.

I hate having a desk in the corner of the kitchen with two screens that I can't hide away. My 'office' is always in view and I'm rubbish at switching off!

I'm a 15min cycle from campus and I can't WAIT to return. 🤞

Another Uni worker here - never thought I'd say this but I miss the buzz and crowds of being on campus during Freshers' week so much!

you can work in a library
My local library doesn't have room for this unless it's sitting on floor with laptop; we can't use random library computers to access employer files; random library computer won't have the right software and can't get on the VPN; I'm not sure if can plug my laptop into library's electricity sockets; library is open limited hours; library has noisy kids in it; plus I can't work well on a piddly laptop screen, myself.

or a coffee shop
Then you have to buy coffee and theres only so much to be drunk in a day; plus coffee isn't free. I mean, is that the idea, to pay for office space ourselves?

or a co-working hub
ditto

My office is gone now!! So we are all remote - we will be able to go to a shared office space though with desk space and meeting rooms paid for by the company - so if we need an office or would prefer to come to an office the option is there - and we can still have meetings and stuff. Such a better work life balance tbh can chose what I want to do each day!! Can also work from a coffee shop for a few hours, can go back to visit my family for a long weekend instead of rushing to get there Friday evening after work and having to get back to London Sunday for work Monday!

We won’t outsource to different cheaper countries - we still need to meet with clients etc on occasion and most of us will need to actually meet up with our teams from time to time and at short notice too! So someone permanently in a different country or far away wouldn’t work.

My wild guess is June. Who knows though 🤷🏻‍♀️

@santanddec yes! Me too. I work in admissions. One of the main reasons I do what I do is because I love open days and all the other events we do, where we meet prospective students and work with our current ones. Doing it all on Zoom from my kitchen just isn't the same ...

I have to laugh at but you can work in a coffee shop library when they open comment, lol a lot of jobs are call centre/ discussing confidential information/ financial, banking I can’t imagine trying to do any of that in public area. Not to mention employers have probably strong contracts to only work in a secure environment.

I don't WFH, it isn't possible in my job so I have no skin in the game either way but I think if/when things start to get better without a backward slide like last year, pressure will increase to go back to the office, at least some of the time. I think a lasting legacy of covid will be more WFH, for some full time, but I think a lot of employers are starting to recognise the issues around team building, networking, water cooler ideas, mentoring and new starters. I've no doubt that productivity has increased for some but it has fallen hugely in lots of areas (try getting anything done that involves solicitors).

I can see it in my industry, where management are in one day per week each on a rota basis. On paper they can work from home effectively but they are so disconnected now from what is happening on the ground. From operational issues to the general mood of the front line staff, they have no idea. If I pop in to their office and my manager isn't in because it's not his day it's not always easy to get what I need from the manager that is in. It's not their fault and the plans were made to follow government orders so I'm not having a go, but it is demonstrably not working for us. However, the managers like it, so I imagine will resist being brought back to the office more frequently. They did always have the option to work from home, and can manage their hours anyway, but I suppose culturally most work was done in the office. I can see them doing something like 3 days in, 2 days WFH on a rota basis maybe.

I don't know much about it but aren't there liability issues for employers in terms of occupational health for people working from home? As others have touched on, you can't expect someone to WFH permanently when they're in their early 20s living in a house share.

No idea but I hope it's soon! I have a mammoth commute but I will happily start forking out for fuel again if it means we can stop wfh. I think there is only 1 person from my office who is loving it, everyone else is desperate to get back.

I know our boss will let us back as soon as the government says we can, as our company is really big on employee wellbeing and can see we're not happy at home.

My DSis works for a major call centre. They've announced it'll never reopen and they're expecting staff to work from home indefinitely.
She's gutted. She misses the support and camaraderie that she had from working in the office and is fed up of having to host her large work-issued IT set up (router, PC and 2 monitors) on her dining room table.

When HS2 needs some passengers.

@tentative3

I don't WFH, it isn't possible in my job so I have no skin in the game either way but I think if/when things start to get better without a backward slide like last year, pressure will increase to go back to the office, at least some of the time. I think a lasting legacy of covid will be more WFH, for some full time, but I think a lot of employers are starting to recognise the issues around team building, networking, water cooler ideas, mentoring and new starters. I've no doubt that productivity has increased for some but it has fallen hugely in lots of areas (try getting anything done that involves solicitors).

I can see it in my industry, where management are in one day per week each on a rota basis. On paper they can work from home effectively but they are so disconnected now from what is happening on the ground. From operational issues to the general mood of the front line staff, they have no idea. If I pop in to their office and my manager isn't in because it's not his day it's not always easy to get what I need from the manager that is in. It's not their fault and the plans were made to follow government orders so I'm not having a go, but it is demonstrably not working for us. However, the managers like it, so I imagine will resist being brought back to the office more frequently. They did always have the option to work from home, and can manage their hours anyway, but I suppose culturally most work was done in the office. I can see them doing something like 3 days in, 2 days WFH on a rota basis maybe.

I don't know much about it but aren't there liability issues for employers in terms of occupational health for people working from home? As others have touched on, you can't expect someone to WFH permanently when they're in their early 20s living in a house share.

On your last para, my employer (uni) has recognised this. They are enabling people to work from the office if, for logistical reasons or for wellbeing, they are unable to wfh. Several colleagues are in shared houses: what sort of life is that if you're restricted to your bedroom for much of the day? Particularly where subject matter is confidential.

Working in admissions as I do, we've been told to be very careful when working in public places.

My workplace will give everyone the choice. I think most people will go for a blended approach.

Personally I will only go to the office if I want to face to face meet. I don't ever plan to return to 9-5 desk time.

I think many offices will change a lot and become places where people come together creatively rather just a place that provides desk space.