Mum has covid 4 weeks after vaccine

[Jj2431]

I'm clueless. My mum works for the NHS and had the jab a month ago but now has positive covid test. She's tired and lost sense of smell but so far doing ok. Does this mean the vaccine doesn't work or does it mean She's just unlikely to get very unwell with it? I'm so confused and worried and also feel hopeless about the vaccine now.

@Chutneywashisname but chutney. The AZ data showed that after one dose zero people got seriously ill or went to hospital or died. And that was topped up by dose two. What is not to like about that? So if you catch it it will be mild. Whichever vaccine you have.

The difference in the efficacy is only whether you have a sniffle or no symptoms at all.

Why would you say no to that?

Seriously don’t get it.

@Chutneywashisname and honestly as a healthcare worker I would have thought you knew this and would set an example to others - not scare people into not having the AZ vaccine - which is 100% efficacious in trials for what it is meant to do eg prevent serious disease and hospitalisation.

@Blessex. Yes, you’re right. Sorry, the pedant in me got sucked in - OP really does not need to worry about her mum being seriously ill, the risk is minuscule.

@cautiouscovidity incubation is 2-14 days with 5-6 days being most common.

@Chutneywashisname if your colleagues are front line, meeting patients day in and day out, they are putting themselves at unnecessary risk by refusing one vaccine to wait for one with “better” efficacy.

It makes no sense to delay getting protection against serious illness and potential death, so that you eventually have slightly more protection against an annoying cough and feeling tired for a week.

@Chutneywashisname

Blessex I think that is easier to say when you are further away from seeing the needle. When the injection is imminent, the full realisation that the AZ's data fares worse in comparison with the other vaccines is frightening. Many colleagues are refusing the AZ which makes others even more hesitant to proceed.

To me, this reads like asking, "Do I want to be driven to work in an Audi or a Rolls". Sure, the Rolls is the definition of luxury, but the Audi is still a pretty impressive ride.

Particularly if the alternative is walking to work in the rain.

I totally get that the Pfizer research seems more robust on the face of it, although I don't think it's possible to compare directly for all the reasons that have already been said. But Oz/Az is still infinitely better than nothing, which is the option it sounds like your colleagues are choosing.

I had my first dose a month ago. It happened to be Pfizer. But I would have taken whatever was offered.

@ssd

If a nurse tests positive, does everyone on her shift that came into contact with her need to self isolate for 10 days?

Is there any HCP here that could answer that?

@Motorina @PuzzledObserver this is why throwing round things like 70% and 90% into the population is so dangerous. It just gets misread and misinterpreted. And then people put themselves unnecessarily at risk waiting for the rolls Royce. And anyway as we said earlier maybe the Audi will turn into a jumbo jet once more data is published and we actually look at the data like for like.

@ssd - no, they do not. The assumption is that both will have been wearing appropriate PPE throughout their shifts, and so no self-isolation is necessary.

If any of the people involved think that that is not the case, then I would suggest the first action should be a discussion with their line manager.

@Motorina, thanks. What do they class as appropriate ppe? Do you mean the blue surgical masks everyone can wear?

@ssd it will depend on the type of care being provided. There should be a procedure in place for each setting, which will include things like PPE requirements. Typical would be mask, visor and apron for non aerosol generating, and FFP3 mask plus long sleeved gown if aerosol generating procedures are being done, but it does vary somewhat from trust to trust and setting to setting.

The way any vaccine works is to prime your immune system so it's ready to fight off an infection. No vaccine stops you 'getting' a disease as you still pick up a virus in the same way - it will still enter your body if someone with covid coughs at you for example. But the vaccine generally makes it so your body can clamp down on it very quickly.

It works more efficiently for some people and less for others - but importantly it should stop your mum/other vaccinated people from getting severe illness. (Because her body will be better at fighting it off than it otherwise would have been).

You may feel differently Blessex when you are about to be injected.

On the plus side, think of it as for all the HCWs who decline it and wait for Pfizer, there is more AZ to go to other categories and you may get yours sooner.

This is a good article on the relative efficacy of the different vaccines and how much (little) it matters.

www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/briefing/vaccination-myanmar-coup-rochester-police.html?smid=tw-share

@Jj2431 hopefully it should give you some comfort, also, as it reinforces the point others have made about the vaccine effectively eliminating the risk of serious illness and death.

My parents had the Pfizer vaccine and in many ways I wish they had had AZ (although again I am just bloody happy they are both jabbed)

AZ is:

• more known tech - so they know more about the longevity of it than they do about the novel mRNA tech
• was 100% effective against severe disease in trials
• has been proven that when second jab is given after 12 week interval the efficacy is actually better than 3 or 6 week interval
• there will be a neat ‘top up’ against novel strains ready in the autumn using the same tech
• it is made here and so less supply chain worry about second dose being available

@Chutneywashisname I won’t feel differently because I wish to be protected against severe disease or death and that is what both AZ and Pfizer do!!!!! I am not scared of getting it mildly. I will snap up any that take me out of risk.

@SilverBirchWithout "This is why younger children are less likely to be vectors of severe infection, they don’t tend to get it so badly or she’d the virus so seriously."

Please can you explain this in a little more depth? I find this quite interesting.

@Chutneywashisname equally think of all the people who will be unprotected while you all wait for Pfizer. I find it wholly irresponsible. But I will stop now or I get too upset.

@Motorina thanks again.

[quote B1rthis]@SilverBirchWithout "This is why younger children are less likely to be vectors of severe infection, they don’t tend to get it so badly or she’d the virus so seriously."

Please can you explain this in a little more depth? I find this quite interesting.[/quote]
I’m no scientist or doctor, but have tried to keep myself informed by reading layman’s extracts from reliable journals and experts.

Many of the social distancing steps we are taking work not just because we are totally avoiding contact with the virus, but avoidIng excessive inhaling of the virus (viral load). The longer we are exposed to the virus and the more people we are exposed to with the virus the more likely we will become infected. There is also evidence that indicates the higher the viral load the worse the infection is for an individual.

People who are seriously ill with severe symptoms also ‘shed’ more virus - through their airways, skin contact, faeces and so on. The longer the time we have contact with an infected individual the more of the virus we are exposed to.This may be why certain professions are more likely to have higher death rates (HCW, taxi-drivers, and retail workers).

Younger children may catch the virus at a similar rate to the adult population but are much more likely to be asymptomatic or have much milder symptoms and thus are not shedding the virus to the same degree - At a simple level if someone is not coughing much they are not pumping out virus into the air - statistics for death rates in teachers are not much more than the average death-rates for all professions.

It is likely that one of the key benefits of the vaccine is by reducing the level and severity of symptoms we will be able to reduce the level of serious infections.
This is just my lay person’s ‘s explanation - hopefully others can explain more scientifically!

ssd
If a nurse tests positive, does everyone on her shift that came into contact with her need to self isolate for 10 days?
Is there any HCP here that could answer that?

I can’t answer for all nurses, but my son’s a Dr working on the front line.
Basically if you are masked and gowned working with Covid patients and a colleague becomes infected - this is fundamentally no different to being exposed to infected patients so you don’t need to isolate. However if you are exposed to an infected colleague in an environment where you are not wearing PPE, for example chatting in the car park, restroom, or in a social situation you would need to wait until your lateral flow test came back negative.

Thank you for all your comments. Only just catching up as I'm a mum of 3 and life is chaos lol my mum has only had the first dose and I believe her second dose is next month. Sister also has a positive test and is much more unwell but hasn't had the injection as she's healthy in her 20s

@Jj2431

Thanks. Just catching up. It's the pfizer vaccine and at the moment she is just a little achey and has lost smell and taste.

With the exception of the loss of smell and taste, there seems to be reports of a number of people feeling achey or having a fever after their second dose of vaccine, or first dose after having had covid previously. These people however, haven't caught covid at that particular time so the symptoms are due to their immune system being reactivated by the vaccine. So I think for those who test positive after the vaccine it is hard to tell if many of the symptoms of infection arefrom symptoms due to their pre-vaccinated immune system ramping up. However, I'm not sure if loss of smell and test is more due to viral infection of the olfactory nerve? I don't know how much virus you need to have for that to happen though. Maybe it isn't very much?

Two doses are needed ideally, and 3 weeks after the 2nd dose.

Vaccination doesn’t always stop you getting it but makes you much less likely to get very ill from it.

@PuzzledObserver

Re “it doesn’t stop you getting it” - not quite true.

When someone is exposed to the virus, there are four possible outcomes:

1. Don’t become infected (a PCR test would be negative)
2. Become infected (PCR positive) but asymptomatic
3. Become infected, mild symptoms, managable at home
4. Become infected, severe symptoms, need hospital care

The endpoint of the Pfizer trial was symptomatic infection - the combination of 3 and 4. It was shown to greatly reduce 3 and eliminate 4. But of those who showed no symptoms, we don’t know whether they were uninfected (1) or asymptomatic (2).

AZ also PCR tested participants regularly after vaccination, and confirmed that as well as the reduction in 3 and elimination of 4, the likelihood of a positive PCR test was reduced by 67% compared to the control group. Ergo, vaccinated people were less likely to become infected when exposed to the virus. Although Pfizer didn’t do this test, it seems likely all vaccines would have a similar effect.

So, vaccines DO prevent people from catching Covid, just not everyone. Once vaccinated, you are less likely to catch Covid. This is good news, because if you don’t have the virus in your system, you can’t pass it on. Vaccines reduce transmission!!

They also reduce the severity of disease. In the trials, no-one who had the vaccines were hospitalised or died. It’s unlikely that this 100% protection will be maintained across the whole population, but the number of vaccinated people who die of Covid should be tiny - hurray!!

And some people - maybe 2/3 of people - are completely protected from becoming infected at all.

Please note that the definition of “mild” in the trials is “not requiring hospital care.” You can still be pretty bloody miserable and not require hospital care.

Thank you, excellent explanation

Its been very clear in everything I have seen that the vaccine does not stop you catching covid. It does not stop you spreading covid. It only stops you getting seriously ill. This is why you must continue to social distance, wear masks, track and trace and isolate even post vaccine