Do you think your kids' educational achievement will suffer?

[Echobelly]

I think I'm lucky as my kids aren't in really essential years (start of primary, secondary exams) and both schools are mounting a fairly good provision online, especially the secondary. And TBF, we are a very fortunate household where the kids have space and equipment to learn. Even with DS (Y5) having ADHD, I don't feel as though either of them will underperform academically in the long run because of this.

Emotionally/socially I have more concerns for what they've missed out on, especially with DS having some challenges to managing social skills, and DD missing out on chunks of her first and second year of secondary school - I feel that chould have more of an impact for them than missed learning.

I’m really worried about how schools will function over the next few years. There is going to be even bigger disparities between those who are bright with supportive parents and those who aren’t and who have had no support. There is also going to be a lot of much poorer families (double whammy of COVID-19 and Brexit) which brings a whole raft of worry, anger and frustration for children. Unless something is done to ease the disparities I think secondary schools especially will be much more volatile places.

But to answer your question, my own children’s education hasn’t suffered as they are getting between 2-4 hours a day with us. They are both bright and we are fortunate enough to be able to give them the time they need. They are primary age, which I’m sure makes it easier.

@thirdfiddle

The problem with U.K. state schools is because they are usually so crowded they push on through the syllabus and don’t have much time to revisit work already covered. Really? That's not our experience. I thought they operated a spiral curriculum that keeps revisiting the same things. Hence the annual ugh they're doing place value agaaaaaain moanfest.

It’s a quick revisit. If they havnt got a full grasp of the fundamentals they are still left with a patchy understanding. There are still children that leave primary schools with very limited literacy skills. I’m not blaming the teachers by the way, I sat in on a year 4 class one morning and the teacher was fantastic, I really admired her but there was 30 kids in her class. The majority of the time was taken up just on class management and the children were not necessarily naughty. Out of about 4 hours there was only 1 and half hours solid learning and that was stretched over two lessons - maths and ICT.

It was the main factor of why I put my kids in to private.

Yes from the top of the class to the bottom. As well as problems with access to laptops, headphones etc, multiple kids logging into satchel one and getting on someone else’s account, there’s the loss of their friendship group, homework done grudgingly, isolation too much time on screens. I could go on...

Maybe DD's school are more spirally than the one you observed florida. They are really digging back into concepts - but at cost of not being good at greater depth for those that need it. Maybe particularly so in lockdown where they've mostly only covered revision, but I think generally the case.

DD year 5 no, because we have sacked off school maths provision which was dire and have a friend who was previously a math's teacher but currently furloughed from her current job, doing higher level stuff with her. Ditto English, my Mum is doing English each day with her and digging further into stuff. We are exceptionally lucky to be able to do that.

DS year 7 - undoubtedly he is falling behind educationally and also socially as had joined a new year group and didn't have time to form and establish new friendships before being off again.

For whoever above said "I hope it's worth it" - it won't have been. The general fallout from a ridiculously pursued lockdown will be catastrophic and that will become apparent in the next few years. Education, and the lack thereof, will a massive part of that.

@Splann

I’m really worried about how schools will function over the next few years. There is going to be even bigger disparities between those who are bright with supportive parents and those who aren’t and who have had no support. There is also going to be a lot of much poorer families (double whammy of COVID-19 and Brexit) which brings a whole raft of worry, anger and frustration for children. Unless something is done to ease the disparities I think secondary schools especially will be much more volatile places.

But to answer your question, my own children’s education hasn’t suffered as they are getting between 2-4 hours a day with us. They are both bright and we are fortunate enough to be able to give them the time they need. They are primary age, which I’m sure makes it easier.

One of the things that is upsetting me is the perception that parents aren't 'supportive' if they aren't able to home school much.

I'm working full time from home but work are flexible, so in theory I would have time to home school.

But my mental health is absolutely on the floor. The lowest I've ever been and I've been through some real shit in my life. I have nothing left to give and just can't focus/engage with schooling on top of everything else.

I've stopped beating myself up for this. I am not a bad mother or someone who isn't supportive of their education. I've always supported them, taught them to read, been fortunate in that I can buy them all the books they need/want. But I am exhausted- prior to the pandemic life was hard enough (whole separate thread) and all the things that got me through have been taken away. I'm not the mum I want to be when I have no life myself.

I want to support them but mentally I can't, not in the way I'd like. And there are many parents struggling and suffering like this. I feel our struggles are completely ignored, everything is focused on the elderly or children. Nothing for young people, nothing for parents. And children need functioning parents!

Nick Gibb told us: “Not one child’s future will suffer as a result of this pandemic.” There we are. From the horse’s mouth. And government ministers always tell the truth.

And pigs really do fly.

I'm not the mum I want to be when I have no life myself.

I don’t think any of us are. All you can do is dig deep and stay strong, because what’s the alternative? Easier said than done maybe, but really, what choice do we have? I absolutely sympathize, it is the craziest situation and there seems to be no immediate end in sight. But you sound like you’ve come through a lot @StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind You can do this.

@WinstonmissesXmas thankyou 💐

I agree, there's no real choice but to stay strong and keep going. The pandemic has been diabolical for many people but it infuriates me when something is made harder than necessary. It's clear that in this lockdown, the pressure being put on schools (and therefore parents) is entirely different to in the first lockdown and I think it's unnecessary.

All in an attempt to reduce the resources that the government and DfE will put into catching kids up afterwards. I've no faith in them whatsoever.

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind completely agree with you. I hate it that I'm seen as obstructive or not caring about my kids or their education but I work full time too. I'm a key worker and I tried doing both last year it just didn't work.

The difference in my kids this year to last year when I've said they don't need to do the school work if they don't have to is amazing. They've actually learned more (although not necessarily curriculum), help each other and seem happier. We do CGP workouts to keep some learning up but I know the school just see us as failures.

Some parents will be spoonfeeding and pressurising their kids and they get all the well dones and home learning certificates - their children haven't necessary learned a lot either.

It's just all the pretence of it I find difficult and it seems to be more about parents ticking the boxes rather than what might be helping the kids.

Is the reason why so many secondary schools aren’t running proper online lessons because of the split between those at home and those in school?

@pinkhappy I can only speak about our primary school but it's a bit false to say this is the reason. It's two form entry so one teacher is at home full time focussing on the at home children. The reason for not doing live lessons is because the school chooses not too, because they don't think they'd be better for the the kids. This is despite families asking them to try and strangely as soon as my kids have struggled they've been offered 1:1 live lessons that are brilliant. Now there's no reason at all they couldn't have more kids on those lessons.

My friend is a secondary teacher with primary age children. I think it's fairly common for those with children at home to be the designated at home teacher. She only teaches one lesson a week, partly because she has her own children to look after but also because she says the resources for secondary maths are so good with so much content out there that they don't need to do more.

I understand that teachers may need to look after their own children. But it does make me wonder. I work full time and no extra time given for me to homeschool. My responsibilities and workload have gone up since the pandemic and I know this is the same for some teachers, but there are teachers out there where they are allowed to do less to focus on their families.

Regardless the overall impact of less education is worrying I think, but teachers and schools don't seem particularly worried for now.

No. The education system has to adapt to the prolonged interruption to ensure everyone is on as even a footing as possible and receives any educational support if needed. Standards will need to be adjusted.

The education systems were created by humans and can be adapted by humans. They are not infallible as they stand. It's not like it's some unwavering force that we can't control.

There's already too much importance placed on exam results, for example. I'm hoping that this whole experience will allow us to realise that there are more important issues to contend with.

@Boredsobored That is very interesting. My secondary DS has normal live online lessons all day. It's just like being in school except he doesn't get to see his friends. Purely educationally there is really no difference.

They have even managed to keep the orchestra and quintet going online which I find very impressive.

@pinkhappy there is a real disparity between schools which is the worst thing and it's not always predictable. Our school is very good usually and always been happy my kids have gone there, in the pandemic abysmal and not even offering spaces to vulnerable kids. I'm glad you've had a better experience.

Overall I believe yes it will. For my two, no. DD13 has a full timetable of live lessons and did last time March to July. DS11 has little live input but 1 to 1 support from me and is doing most of the set work with maths and English being absolutely non-negotiable. Socially and emotionally they are also ok, they interact with their friends online almost constantly and DD meets a friend for a walk once a week. But overall for the country yes I think children will suffer educationally, socially and emotionally.

@Boredsobored Yes. DDs primary did next to nothing in lockdown 1 and in the end we moved school. What makes it all worse is the self righteous justification you get from the school. The latest was suggesting that there is no educational value in live teaching.

People who are saying it won't affect their kids- are you still planning to send them back to school post pandemic? My primary kid is doing well in lockdown because we're giving her harder stuff to do and having high expectations. As soon as she's back in school though all the attention is going to be on making up lost ground. I can't see how that can fail to affect her. Unless there is some method of letting them choose to repeat year/move on. But I can't see how they'd ever manage that logistically.

@thirdfiddle

People who are saying it won't affect their kids- are you still planning to send them back to school post pandemic? My primary kid is doing well in lockdown because we're giving her harder stuff to do and having high expectations. As soon as she's back in school though all the attention is going to be on making up lost ground. I can't see how that can fail to affect her. Unless there is some method of letting them choose to repeat year/move on. But I can't see how they'd ever manage that logistically.

It does worry me.

I would have home educated my dd (6). I home educated my older Ds until secondary but it takes a lot out of you with the social aspect, going to home ed groups etc. And it cost me a lot of money with extra curricular classes. School is just "easier" in many ways. Plus we moved across the country inbetween and I didn't have it in my to start with a new home ed network again.

But Dd works so well at home. She's really sociable when she's with people but not seeing other kids hasn't phased her one bit. She's one of those people who's friendly with everyone but steers away from closer friendships - doesn't have best friends etc.

She was top level of all subjects any ways but has flown at home with work we've been doing with her.

She's only actually been at her school one term anyway due to a lockdown house move so she's not emotionally tied to it anyway.

So it's a hard one for me.

@pinkhappy snap! They refuse to do any live lessons and I don't get it. Surely it's obvious that a teacher talking to children and looking at their faces, even via a webcam is a better way to communicate anything than finding a worksheet, uploading it - parent downloading it, printing it and showing to disinterested child. That's if the parent isn't working and has time for that faff. Live lessons aren't perfect but get the teacher infront of the kids.

I think some of the reason they think recorded videos are better is because they're viewed a lot. But I'm sure most views are the parents watching, not the kids!

Tempting to move schools but I don't think that would be right for our kids.

[quote Boredsobored]@pinkhappy snap! They refuse to do any live lessons and I don't get it. Surely it's obvious that a teacher talking to children and looking at their faces, even via a webcam is a better way to communicate anything than finding a worksheet, uploading it - parent downloading it, printing it and showing to disinterested child. That's if the parent isn't working and has time for that faff. Live lessons aren't perfect but get the teacher infront of the kids.

I think some of the reason they think recorded videos are better is because they're viewed a lot. But I'm sure most views are the parents watching, not the kids!

Tempting to move schools but I don't think that would be right for our kids.[/quote]
We have done a mix of live (2x per day) and video (1x per day) and 'not a video input at all' (mostly for 1 other lesson a day, although that varies depending on the subjects taught each day - sometimes a subject has a 'packaged;' video e.g, Oak Academy or more recently another school prepared one).

We're balancing a number of things - principally access to devices. I work in a pretty well-heeled area, but it is really common for all the primary-aged children in a family to share 1 device, or perhaps a couple of devices but they can't type on one or join live lessons with the other so they have to share and swap. So the live lessons for different year groups are staggered, and the videos can be watched at different times. When I am not teaching live, or recording video, i can plan, mark and give timely feedback on everything submitted, which I couldn't necessarily do if I was always 'on screen' - but tbh that is a side benefit. The principal restriction is working out whether the education we provide is 'doable' for a family with 2+ children with 1 device,. We have already distributed all our school laptops to families in order to help.