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Covid

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What social change do you think COVID will trigger?

229 replies

jewel1968 · 06/02/2021 18:35

I have been pondering this for a while and as we spend more time in lockdown I wonder what the long term social impacts will be. Some are fairly obvious but I am wondering what else might occur. For me I think when we finally get to the other side of this pandemic I can see some changes, such as:

  • lots more home working where infrastructure allows
  • more people continuing to exercise at home or in the park and gyms not so attractive
  • fashion changes with people more focused on comfort e.g. high heels go out of favour
  • perhaps an impact on how we look after children
  • if schools perfect online learning we might see it used in some circumstances e.g. When kids are too sick to travel to school but could work from home
  • a change in how we test kids e.g. might we move away from exams

I know some social scientists think we might enter a decadent period similar to the roaring twenties.

Interested in your thoughts...

OP posts:
ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 14:56

@lunapeace

I think there will be a massive drive to get people back into their offices. Working from home is great if you have a big home but it's not such a luxury for most people in small homes with no separate working space. Young people starting out in their careers need to be meeting new people, not stuck wfh. I would also argue that over time, employers will see the benefit of employing cheaper labour from abroad which would have a huge negative impact. Flexible working should definitely be adopted though.
I don't think so.

Businesses run on balance sheets, and if it makes financial sense and they have a mechanism for ensuring they only employ motivated people capable of working independently, they will continue with the home working model.

Whether people have big enough houses is not a business' concern.

Neither is what young workers 'need' in order to develop their careers. What they actually need is the ability to produce their work to an agreed upon standard, with accuracy and to a program. Those things they do not 'need' networking for. They need an ability to self-discipline and self-motivate.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 07/02/2021 15:00

@MoirasRoses

Ps. Flexible home working yes. My employer has offered it already for the future. Contracts are being changed to two days a week in the office, the rest as you choose. Home or office.
Can you choose 5 days in the office? I think it will break me completely if my company insists we work from home after this.
MadameBlobby · 07/02/2021 15:00

@ElliFAntspoo

However I am a fat person who is amazing at my job, I’ve never been discriminated against so far and never off sick but who knows how I will be seen in future. Get a jab and I don't imagine an employer will discriminate. I think the separation will be between those who refuse jabs and those who get them.
Hope so, I’m hoping to get one soon. I’ve never suffered fat discrimination probably because I am so good at what I do it’s not really an issue but I know some people are awful about it and make not nice assumptions :(
lunapeace · 07/02/2021 15:00

@ElliFAntspoo in your opinion of course, you don't speak for most businesses. Just because you are very comfortable with your situation, don't expect it to last.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 07/02/2021 15:00

Whether people have big enough houses is not a business' concern.

It is if they are breaching H&S law

Kazzyhoward · 07/02/2021 15:09

@Wafflewife

Judging by how quickly everyone forgot last summer and immediately started saying 'There wont be a second wave, Covid is done' and cramming their silly selves into restaurants, nothing will change.

The only thing I think will happen is that fewer people will go into teaching because a) They've seen or heard how hard it is for people to teach their own children and b) They've seen how despised teachers are by much of society and how they're treated as irrelevant (and even cannon fodder) by politicians.

Not so sure about that. Teaching is a secure profession. There'll be huge numbers of unemployed due to businesses going bust etc - the better educated amongst the newly unemployed could view fairly brief/cheap training into a secure profession like teaching as being attractive.
FlyingFaster · 07/02/2021 15:12

Probably nothing.
People will just go back to their 2019 behaviour once the threat has gone.

amicissimma · 07/02/2021 15:13

I predict a run on good strong, waterproof walking boots.

Kazzyhoward · 07/02/2021 15:19

@lunapeace

I think there will be a massive drive to get people back into their offices. Working from home is great if you have a big home but it's not such a luxury for most people in small homes with no separate working space. Young people starting out in their careers need to be meeting new people, not stuck wfh. I would also argue that over time, employers will see the benefit of employing cheaper labour from abroad which would have a huge negative impact. Flexible working should definitely be adopted though.
I agree. WFH is a temporary stop gap, but lots of organisations aren't actually efficient at the moment and customer service levels are suffering. That's fine, short term, but not longer term. People will put up with delays etc in the midst of a pandemic, but will expect better/quicker service once it's over.

There may not be a call for full time working in the office, but far more likely a flexible mix of some days in the office, some days at home. That will enable firms to rent smaller office space etc as people will "hot desk" or use meeting rooms, rather than having their own dedicated desk/office.

Another aspect is training etc. Firms will really struggle with trainees, on the job training, etc., if the trainee/trainer aren't in the same place. Nothing beats the trainee sitting close to the experienced staff to learn the job, learn the workplace procedures, etc. You miss so much if the trainee is at home in town A and the trainer is at home in town B. It'd take a lot longer to train and would be far more disruptive, which reduces the efficiency of the experienced staff.

We had one extreme before covid where organisations preferred people in offices. Now we're at the other extreme of the pendulum where (probably) too many staff are working too long at home, thus reducing efficiency/productivity etc., After covid, we'll go to a more "mid" position, some roles home based with occasional office meetings, some roles office based with occasional WFH, and some flexible roles of 2/3 or 3/2 days WFH/office. I see a much more flexible job market where some firms will be more amenable than others to WFH or office or vice versa, where prospective employees will be able to "choose" their employer based on flexibility etc. Not to mention office location as I also foresee a move away from London centralisation to more "hubs" in smaller cities and bigger towns, which will enable people from all other the country to work for the bigger firms, and not having to relocate to London if you want a London based employer.

All good really, more flexibility all round - probably take 5-10 years for organisations/employees to adapt and find a new equilibrium, with a lot of people leaving one job and moving to another more suited to their preferences.

shinynewapple2021 · 07/02/2021 16:06

My workplace has already said that there will be less expectation of people sitting in the office and more allowance for working from home, but there are some aspects of our service which are not working well remotely so I expect to be about 50:50.

I'm hopeful that people will be allowed to WFH when feeling unwell rather than being forced in by threatened disciplinary actions .

And hopeful of more ongoing virtual or telephone medical appointments where appropriate.

I normally do a lot of my shopping online anyway - but at the moment can't wait to get back into a real shop.

I think that there I'll be a few years of high unemployment and higher taxes for those working , but for those who can afford it more emphasis on spending our money doing things rather than acquiring things .

Personally I would think twice about buying a property with no garden or away from family members .

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 16:26

[quote lunapeace]@ElliFAntspoo in your opinion of course, you don't speak for most businesses. Just because you are very comfortable with your situation, don't expect it to last.[/quote]
Lol.
No, in my experience of how businesses evolve over time. I have worked in many countries around the world, and am acutely aware of the motivating factors behind business growth, and the fragility of ones employment status.
I most definitely am not 'comfortable' with my situation. I plan ahead should the businesses I work for not survive the economic realities of the time.

tinylittleyou · 07/02/2021 16:28

I was thinking the opposite- high heels and dressing up for nights out (when things reopen) to become more popular because it will be a novelty and lots of people have been in jogging bottoms for a year. I really miss having a reason to glam up and go out :(

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 16:32

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Whether people have big enough houses is not a business' concern.

It is if they are breaching H&S law

An employer cannot breach H&S law by asking you to work from home. Maybe if you repair cars or rebuild computer systems, but not if your function is what most people understand to be regular office work.

And if you are unable to do so, they can always find some who can. It may be cheaper to pay severance to the obstinate who are unable to change that to pay utilities, maintenance, and rent for an office building that they do not need.

Time will tell. The Green Agenda will push society that way also. Fighting against change in the workplace is also a fight against the environment, and it will be dressed up that way and used as a cudgel by the media.

ekidmxcl · 07/02/2021 16:32

I think that it will be more taboo to turn up at someone’s house with a cough or a cold. People will be more conscious of germs.

Me and dh were once having a nice Christmas with pils when bil turned up with gf who had a stinking cold. Me and dh were then ill for 3 weeks 😡 . That’s the sort of behaviour that I think will reduce.

sneakysnoopysniper · 07/02/2021 16:35

I believe there will be a massive effect on travel and tourism. Social distancing will be with us for some time so travel will be a lot more expensive. Some areas of the world have experienced too much of the wrong kind of tourism because travel was so cheap. Think of Venice and the effect of those huge cruise liners. Or the way in which some communities have been ruined by gawping tourists. I hope we will see travel much more expensive and carefully managed to discourage the drunks and the sex tourists.

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 16:50

I agree. WFH is a temporary stop gap, but lots of organisations aren't actually efficient at the moment and customer service levels are suffering. That's fine, short term, but not longer term. People will put up with delays etc in the midst of a pandemic, but will expect better/quicker service once it's over.

Businesses will improve and adapt to meet customers needs, not revert to norm. There is nothing tying a telephone to an office desk or a computer to company data. They can be anywhere. There may be legacy documents in paper form residing in folders in cabinets, but businesses will change those types of archaic systems. There is no reason for delays unless staff are unable to communicate with one another or incapable of co-ordinating their workloads, or managing their own times. These are things that can be solved with training, restructuring and redundancy packages.

I do not underestimate the financial incentive companies will have to make these changes.

There may not be a call for full time working in the office, but far more likely a flexible mix of some days in the office, some days at home. That will enable firms to rent smaller office space etc as people will "hot desk" or use meeting rooms, rather than having their own dedicated desk/office.

I see a gradual move over the coming decade, bit by bit. If we head from recession into depression, many of the weaker poorly organised companies will go into liquidation anyways, and this will incentivise those who do retain their jobs to be more adaptive, flexible and willing to change.

Another aspect is training etc. Firms will really struggle with trainees, on the job training, etc., if the trainee/trainer aren't in the same place. Nothing beats the trainee sitting close to the experienced staff to learn the job, learn the workplace procedures, etc. You miss so much if the trainee is at home in town A and the trainer is at home in town B. It'd take a lot longer to train and would be far more disruptive, which reduces the efficiency of the experienced staff.

This is where education of children is critical. If a graduate is incapable of self motivation, research, remote learning, self discipline, time management, etc. by the time they leaves university, and not destined for work in a laboratory/research environment, they may find other more capable students have an easier time getting jobs.

It has always been that way. From the student's perspective the problem has always been defining the skills that will be in demand and then portraying competence and confidence at a job interview. Nothing is going to change except the skills needed to do the job.

All good really, more flexibility all round - probably take 5-10 years for organisations/employees to adapt and find a new equilibrium, with a lot of people leaving one job and moving to another more suited to their preferences.

Yeah. I agree with this sentiment. I just think we'll move more in 10 years that most people think we will. I think employers will find it much easier to differentiate between the capable and the incapable going forward, because there is no room to hide incompetence in a digital only workspace, and far less office politics.

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 16:57

@sneakysnoopysniper

I believe there will be a massive effect on travel and tourism. Social distancing will be with us for some time so travel will be a lot more expensive. Some areas of the world have experienced too much of the wrong kind of tourism because travel was so cheap. Think of Venice and the effect of those huge cruise liners. Or the way in which some communities have been ruined by gawping tourists. I hope we will see travel much more expensive and carefully managed to discourage the drunks and the sex tourists.
Tourism as we knew it (international) is dead for a decade. Those businesses in the UK that refocus on what other value they can bring to their own communities will fair better than traditional B&B and Hospitality businesses that were heavily reliant on tourism. 50% of those types of business will be bankrupt in the next 18 months.

How many people here genuinely believe they will be free to do as they please, with only minor sensible restrictions, through Christmas and the New Year?

I see a near identical replay of last year with the exception of stricter 'firebreak lockdowns before Christmas, more than just one day to see loved ones at Christmas, and then months and months of strict lockdown into April next year.

PokemonTrainerRed · 07/02/2021 17:12

I hope that change in travelling expectations doesn't become increased racism towards tourists (in the case of Covid East Asians)

I'd like to see councils encourage bars/pubs/restaurants/cafes to have outdoor dining and drinking when appropriate

I wonder if food trucks will become more popular? Lower overheads than a restaurant and they've not been victims of lockdown. As

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 07/02/2021 17:41

And if you are unable to do so, they can always find some who can. It may be cheaper to pay severance to the obstinate who are unable to change that to pay utilities, maintenance, and rent for an office building that they do not need.

That's fine, they can make me redundant. Why do you think I'm being obstinate FFS? You know nothing about my set up. I have no office space, I have a desk in the corner of the living room with very little natural light. I can't fit two full sized screens on the only desk I could fit in so I'm using one screen and squinting at a lap top. I can't have an office chair as I don't have the room so I have constant back and neck pain. What do you suggest I do? Move house?

Kazzyhoward · 07/02/2021 17:42

This is where education of children is critical. If a graduate is incapable of self motivation, research, remote learning, self discipline, time management, etc. by the time they leaves university, and not destined for work in a laboratory/research environment, they may find other more capable students have an easier time getting jobs.

By the same token, colleges and Uni's would have to up their game at concentrate more on the practical/real life requirements and less on the academic/theoretical, if graduates are going to be expected to hit the ground running rather than receive "person to person" training in their first real job.

I'm an accountant. There's a huge chasm between the accountancy taught at Uni and the reality of accountancy in, say, a small town accountancy practice. It's why you can't actually qualify as an accountant at Uni and need to take another 2/3 years of exams and usually 1/2/3 years of supervised experience in the workplace before you can "practice" as an accountant. Same, I believe, for architects, solicitors, etc. I've been involved in recruitment for over 30 years, so I've interviewed, recruited, trained and supervised, literally dozens of trainee accountants over that time. Graduates really aren't able to hit the ground running, even those who've done accountancy as a major rather than as optional modules in other degrees such as business, economics, financial maths, etc. Yes, they have more of an idea about things than, say, an A level school leaver, but the reality of the job is miles away from what they've been taught in so many ways. They need plenty of hands-on, face to face, training to be taught how to put their academic/theoretic skills into practice. Some of that could be taught in colleges/Unis if the syllabus was changed to include more relevant and realistic case studies etc.

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 17:56

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

And if you are unable to do so, they can always find some who can. It may be cheaper to pay severance to the obstinate who are unable to change that to pay utilities, maintenance, and rent for an office building that they do not need.

That's fine, they can make me redundant. Why do you think I'm being obstinate FFS? You know nothing about my set up. I have no office space, I have a desk in the corner of the living room with very little natural light. I can't fit two full sized screens on the only desk I could fit in so I'm using one screen and squinting at a lap top. I can't have an office chair as I don't have the room so I have constant back and neck pain. What do you suggest I do? Move house?

I wasn't making any accusation. I was pointing out the realities that businesses will move in the most financially prudent method they can towards the destination they will be herded towards by the new green agenda, and in the method least disruptive to their organisations.

They will make those moves at different rates, and with differing levels of success, and the economic realities of the depression environment ahead of us is likely to ensure that many businesses do not succeed and they are no longer required or viable in the new economic environment.

It is nothing personal. Some people will make the move, some will not. Businesses will always retain good staff as far as is reasonably practicable, because it is cheaper than searching for and training a replacement.

But life is changing, and if we dig our heals in and complain, we will find lines socially distanced around the block (or more likely queues of video interviews) of people willing and eager to take our pay packets.

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 18:05

@Kazzyhoward

This is where education of children is critical. If a graduate is incapable of self motivation, research, remote learning, self discipline, time management, etc. by the time they leaves university, and not destined for work in a laboratory/research environment, they may find other more capable students have an easier time getting jobs.

By the same token, colleges and Uni's would have to up their game at concentrate more on the practical/real life requirements and less on the academic/theoretical, if graduates are going to be expected to hit the ground running rather than receive "person to person" training in their first real job.

I'm an accountant. There's a huge chasm between the accountancy taught at Uni and the reality of accountancy in, say, a small town accountancy practice. It's why you can't actually qualify as an accountant at Uni and need to take another 2/3 years of exams and usually 1/2/3 years of supervised experience in the workplace before you can "practice" as an accountant. Same, I believe, for architects, solicitors, etc. I've been involved in recruitment for over 30 years, so I've interviewed, recruited, trained and supervised, literally dozens of trainee accountants over that time. Graduates really aren't able to hit the ground running, even those who've done accountancy as a major rather than as optional modules in other degrees such as business, economics, financial maths, etc. Yes, they have more of an idea about things than, say, an A level school leaver, but the reality of the job is miles away from what they've been taught in so many ways. They need plenty of hands-on, face to face, training to be taught how to put their academic/theoretic skills into practice. Some of that could be taught in colleges/Unis if the syllabus was changed to include more relevant and realistic case studies etc.

I graduated in the 90's. Engineering, That chasm existed then. It still does. It will continue to do so.

The universities will never produce students capable of working in the real world. They will only produce academics. The step from academia is a step the student must make on their own.

Some do so naturally during their studies. They work hard, study wider and in more depth than their fellow students, and see employment in their fields during their study. Others study only what they are told to study, do not have a rounded understanding of their subject, and fall in with the also-rans.

The only difference going forward is that it is likely to be easier to identify a future success story from an also-ran, and in a tight economic market, most employers will likely to throw more money at prospective successes than less money at a greater pool of possibles.

So I suspect the graduate job market is going to become staggeringly harder for the average graduate to navigate, and staggeringly more profitable for students that 'get it' to pass through.

That all said, I see a burgeoning entrepreneurial sector developing in the graduate space, and that is where real money is made.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 07/02/2021 18:23

But life is changing, and if we dig our heals in and complain, we will find lines socially distanced around the block (or more likely queues of video interviews) of people willing and eager to take our pay packets.

But what about those of us who can't change, not won't? Are we all going to end up unemployed? For some of of working from home is not sustainable long term, not because we don't want to, but because we can't. I had to laugh when we got a email telling us to remember that many calls are confidential - in a one bedroom flat you can hear everything in each room so short of telling DH to go out 3 or 4 times a day what can I do?

In my company I'm not the only one in this situation so they'd be getting rid of a lot of us with years of experience.

Dustyboots · 07/02/2021 18:29

I think people will become less materialistic- recession will also lead to this.

People will become more family focused, less busy - less distracted.

There may be a rise in stay at home parents- leading to lower cost housing as mortgages go back to single wage mortgages rather than double.

Schooling online/ from home will rise and in popularity. It will be a state funded option.

International travel for work and holidays will be reduced. We will start to put the environment first and be proud to do that.

MadameBlobby · 07/02/2021 18:34

This is where education of children is critical. If a graduate is incapable of self motivation, research, remote learning, self discipline, time management, etc. by the time they leaves university, and not destined for work in a laboratory/research environment, they may find other more capable students have an easier time getting jobs.

Some jobs need in person supervision and it’s not to do with the person not being capable. I’m a lawyer. You learn so much in legal practice from being around other more experienced people and just learning by osmosis how they work. It’s extremely difficult to replicate that from home. Maybe in roles that are not so demanding in every way it might be more straightforward