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Longer school days to make up for lost learning

999 replies

StitchInLime · 06/02/2021 10:52

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

OP posts:
Redwinestillfine · 06/02/2021 12:19

If people want it and it's voluntary fine but I won't be signing mine up. They have both been doing homeschool throughout lockdown and a longer school day is not going to = more learning. Also they'll be bored stiff going back over stuff. Homeschooling does not always mean loss of education. My ds in particular has come on leaps and bounds.

MistleTOEboughski · 06/02/2021 12:19

Children need play, fresh air, exercise and friendship. They need to recover their childhood - they have lost a year of vital development - we know - ALL the researh shows - the children develop through PLAY.

We could see this as a wonderful summer of play for kids of ALL ages - and I include teenagers - they all need to socialise intensely, get time away from parents and adults! They need to be self directed, free and joyful.

Agree so much most kids are doing online lessons, what is missing is social interaction.

Cookiecrisps · 06/02/2021 12:20

[quote FizzyPepsi]@Taikoo

I don't expect the unions to cooperate with this. But equally it shouldn't be a choice- it should be a clear instruction from government that it is teachers' civic duty to support catch up programmes.

Unions or teachers unwilling to co-operate should be subject to termination and the imposition of new contracts.[/quote]
The government have a duty to adequately fund schools and sort out and invest in proper risk mitigation measures in education settings. They have dodged these responsibilities.

The education system is propped up already by many thousands of unpaid working hours and good will so no I’m not giving any more. I am getting to the point where my time is spread so thinly there will be nothing left to give. I’m sure I’m not alone in this.

Ihatemyseleffordoingthis · 06/02/2021 12:20

Also, there is no such thing as "behind". We need to stop thinking of education as a race.

RedToothBrush · 06/02/2021 12:20

@mollypuss1

The reports I’ve read on this say it won’t be teachers facilitating this but community groups and volunteers.
The whole idea of extending days is nuts. Teachers won't do it. (Many can't). Unions will pitch a fit.

The idea of community groups and volunteers filling the gap is hilarious. It doesn't take a genuis to work out it obviously isn't going to help in the most depreived communities. Also there will be zero quality control over the level of support kids will be getting. These are not going to be teachers - they will not have the skills required. Given that the likes of Scouts, Cubs and Beavers simply can not get enough leaders for groups I'm not terribly hopeful that theres going to be a wave of sudden interest in volunteering for schools. Not to mention that if you run these groups you have to go through all kids of training - first aid, data protection, safeguarding training to name just a few - you can't just run a troop without them.

Imho its a safe guarding minefield and is purely for the concerned middle classes. Where you get additional classes with lots of kids from the communities which are most struggling, you are going to get a mirad of additional needs which make it more difficult than just teaching (think of it as a free dumping group for kids from parents who don't care about their kids and there being a host of behavioural issues to be thought of - kids who need specialistic support not just a bunch of unqualified volunteers, many of whom are liable to be out of their depth). There still are costs attatched to running of buildings and supplies too. All this talk of communities and volunteers misses this obvious question of how you run this scheme on thin air.

I say this as someone who spent the year before the pandemic volunteering at my sons school too. Its not something people can just do. Not forgetting who organises the volunteers and directs them to the needs of the children who need help most? Thats right its the teachers. This in itself is extra work for teachers.

On top of this you also have issues and logistics over where this will take place (who locks the school gates if its in schools? And when do the cleaners come in?).

If we are going to recruit thousands of people to do this, where are these people going to come from? Let me put it another way - who are these thousands of people who are going to be available between 3.30pm and 5pm who don't have jobs? Anyone who has kids and isn't working will either be keeping their own kids up to date (and therefore has no need of these classes and may indeed feel its not in the interests of their own kids to volunteer for a number of reasons) or if they are currently struggling with their own kids home learning, perhaps are not going to be the best people to be doing catch up classes. People who are inclined to volunteer already do so. How do you get free blood involved? From experience this is a question I'm yet to see a decent answer to - its always someone else's responsibility and you get the response 'I'm too busy', which makes people who DO volunteer laugh. The saying in our local community is that 'if you want something done, find a busy person', because no other fucker can be bothered to get off their arse and facilitate it and its damn near impossible to get new people involved.

Finally the silent point on this is probably that this will fall on being the responsibility of women who have lost their jobs to sort...

The whole idea is little more than a fucking farce that will quickly die a death. Probably after a blaze of publicity and glory for politicians who will launch the scheme. It has no practical use or way to achieve the goal it is apparently trying to. Its not been remotely thought through. But it sounds nice in principle and looks good for headlines.

I do wonder if the people who think this is a bright idea, play any active role in educating their children - or see them between the hours of 3.30pm and 5pm.

DeciduousPerennial · 06/02/2021 12:20

“Like, I already leave work at 5pm every day at the moment (which is earlier than in normal times) and don’t get home until half past, so if I was teaching until 5 I wouldn’t get home until like 7pm every night to then get up at 6 the next day. No thanks.”

I’m just curious - is this because you need to take work home?

ChloeDecker · 06/02/2021 12:20

it should be a clear instruction from government that it is teachers' civic duty to support catch up programmes.

You are conveniently forgetting ignoring the fact that teachers and support staff have always put on catch up sessions in their own time: booster sessions, Easter revisions sessions, reading and numeracy catch ups, clubs and mentoring programmes plus many others and they will do again and already are doing in many schools right now so you can piss off with your ‘civic duty’ nonsense and stop following UsForThem and reading the Daily Mail.

ancientgran · 06/02/2021 12:20

[quote FizzyPepsi]@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

The only thing unions have ensured is that teachers will have to be at the back of the queue in future when it comes to things like pay rises. As they can no longer be considered key workers.

DC would not have received a single day's in person education since last March if it was up to the unions (and quite possibly wouldn't until when, September 2022?)

Imagine if genuine key workers did the same- nurses, bus drivers, supermarket staff. Teachers cannot be key workers if they are able to not attend work for 18 months+.[/quote]
One of my kids is a teacher, the other is a nurse. Both are working long hours, the teacher tells me their classes are all at normal stage for this time of the year, children who were failing to engage have been brought into school as vulnerable. They are working longer hours to cover children in school and also do good quality lessons for the children at home. The school provided cover for keyworker/vulnerable children unpaid in holidays last year.

My GS who lives with me is doing GCSEs this year, predicted all 8s and 9s and has worked hard throughout as have his teachers.

The nurse has had covid, is working long hours and is thinking of buying a bigger house as they have made so much money because they have been paid overtime for all the extra work they have done. To get people to work at Christmas/New Year the hospital were offering a bonus of three figures for every day worked plus overtime.

Teachers have been at the back of the queue all year but if they aren't key workers why are so many parents desperate to get their kids back to school? It isn't the building that is attracting them it is the staff.

MorganKitten · 06/02/2021 12:20

@storminabuttercup

Not being goady here but every time the subject of teachers working extra hours comes up it's met with 'already working full time'. I totally get teachers don't work 9-3 there's marking etc, but we are not in normal times, when something needs doing in my job I work extra as do most I assume, doctors, nurses etc are all working crazy shifts. Why are some school staff so reluctant to do that bit extra? I'm not saying do it for free but I know a few who would happily work more to catch kids up.
Teachers work much longer hours than 9-3 even in normal times. I’ve worked alongside schools and seen teachers in classrooms prepping things until 6.
Bargebill19 · 06/02/2021 12:21

Where are they doing this extra learning? I guess in schools - so not just extra teaching hours required, but more hours for support staff. Kiss good bye to getting schools cleaned etc.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/02/2021 12:21

I wouldn't want this at all. The school day is long enough.

blue25 · 06/02/2021 12:22

Teachers simply won’t do it & I don’t blame them. The unions will be in uproar.

NailsNeedDoing · 06/02/2021 12:22

The only children who need extra school would be the ones most reluctant to use it. It couldn’t be made open to all children because plenty of children who have been supported with remote learning have been keeping up well, so it would just be singling out disadvantaged and lower ability children and support for them would be better given in the summer holidays rather than a longer school day.

MushMonster · 06/02/2021 12:23

I do like the idea, same as extending school into summer too.
If they are support learning more than teaching itself it can be done by volunteers or teachers if they choose too.
For summer, if SD has lessened, I think it would be great for the children to have some fun arts/ sports/ chats sessions mixed in with a bit of revision and learning.
It is surely much better than being stuck at home with long online days, and seeing their friends through a phone screen.

halcyondays · 06/02/2021 12:23

Terrible idea, the school day is long enough.

fireplaceburning · 06/02/2021 12:24

I cannot do any more hours. I'm a part time worker but working every day to keep up with online and in school learning. I cannot and will not do longer hours in school. My children are also working very long days. 8.30-4.00 with only a short lunch break, I don't want them in for long days either

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 06/02/2021 12:24

Ancientgran,

That’s really interesting. Teachers don’t get paid any overtime.

mumsneedwine · 06/02/2021 12:24

I don't understand why all these children are behind. We have continued teaching throughout and my year 11s have finished the syllabus so now just revising. Finishing with year 13 next week. As normal.
If kids do the work teachers set then they should not be behind. As has been said, those not engaging are now in school.

CallmeAngelina · 06/02/2021 12:25

@FizzyPepsi, I can't help noticing that you're very new to Mumsnet?

Did you answer the Bat-call from U4T?

Scroll on by, people, and don't rise to it.

fireplaceburning · 06/02/2021 12:25

@storminabuttercup I think it's the for free issue. Most jobs are paid for overtime. My friend who is a nurse works extra hours but gets paid for them. You don't get paid for extra work as a teacher it is just expected

Newpuppymummy · 06/02/2021 12:27

Teachers don’t work from 9-3.30 anyway so adding an extra half hour til 4 wouldn’t make a huge difference. Schools vary in hours anyway

RedToothBrush · 06/02/2021 12:27

[quote FizzyPepsi]@Taikoo

I don't expect the unions to cooperate with this. But equally it shouldn't be a choice- it should be a clear instruction from government that it is teachers' civic duty to support catch up programmes.

Unions or teachers unwilling to co-operate should be subject to termination and the imposition of new contracts.[/quote]
One of my close friends is a teacher. She volunteers already. So does her husband. When they aren't doing that, they are busy taking their own kids to after school sports and music classes. They are genuinely some of the most civic minded people I know. I don't when the fuck you expect them to do any more.

Most of the teachers and TAs I know ALREADY go far above and beyond when it comes to child welfare, and doing stuff beyond the limits of their paid employment.

If you want to talk about civic duty then saying that to teachers who have spent a year burning themselves out and potentially putting themselves at risk in classrooms with no PPE, you are actually taking the piss and have no idea wtf you are talking about.

Honestly. As I say in the post above, taking up the slack and volunteering always seems to be someone else's responsibility. If I had a pound for the number of excuses I've heard on the matter over the past 8 years, I could make a very sizeable donation to charity. And its all bullshit.

storminabuttercup · 06/02/2021 12:29

[quote fireplaceburning]@storminabuttercup I think it's the for free issue. Most jobs are paid for overtime. My friend who is a nurse works extra hours but gets paid for them. You don't get paid for extra work as a teacher it is just expected [/quote]
Yeah and I totally think they should be paid.
And I'm not as suggested upthread saying teachers are work shy. I just don't understand this blanket response that they do loads of hours so don't want to do more. Some surely will to earn more

Angel2702 · 06/02/2021 12:29

No they are stuck in school for long enough, I want them to get back to their hobbies bad things they enjoy and having a longer school day won’t work with that. It’s more than just education they’ve missed.

slothpaw · 06/02/2021 12:29

"Why are some school staff so reluctant to do that bit extra?"

We ALREADY do extra all year round. 1 in 4 teachers work over 60 hours a week and that was before the pandemic. Workload has risen since then.