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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Longer school days to make up for lost learning

999 replies

StitchInLime · 06/02/2021 10:52

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

OP posts:
FizzyPepsi · 06/02/2021 11:55

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year5teacher · 06/02/2021 11:56

Sorry but fuck that.
Primary school children aren’t going to want that, they’re not going to want to be in school until, what, 4:30? 5? Hmm it’s not like they’d get good quality learning out of that time, they would be utterly knackered. Ridiculous. I also don’t want to teach later because then I’ll quite literally spend my entire evening marking etc.

FizzyPepsi · 06/02/2021 11:56

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DeciduousPerennial · 06/02/2021 11:56

I don’t want quantity of hours regardless of who delivers it, I want structured, quality teaching - this isn’t something you can just stick them in front of a random volunteer or a an outsourced community group and it’ll be fine. How does that dovetail in to their school-based learning?

Instead of papering over it like this, they need to fundamentally review the expectations, assessments, and curriculum for the entire school cohort to accommodate and adjust for an entire year’s (if not longer) of stalled learning. Everyone has done their best, but this last year has been treading water at most if you look at it at macro level - the government needs to acknowledge that, rip up the rule book, and work with schools (not unions) to say ‘what now’.

Just putting kids in front of volunteers and in community groups for an extra couple of hours a day will not cut it.

And that’s before we get into the thousands and thousands of children with additional needs who will be even further disadvantaged, forgotten about, and left behind by that approach.

The government can spend billions on Nightingale hospitals for the NHS, billions on furlough, billions on vaccines, billions on food parcels, increases in benefits, re-training schemes, getting the Army to support infrastructure rollouts, and a multitude of other things (and rightly so) - why won’t they do the same for education workers, schools, and children? It’s solvable with lateral thinking, a willingness to invest, and an attitude from all involved of ‘what can we do’ instead of ‘can’t’. Sticking plasters and half arsed solutions is all I see. It’s shameful of them.

ohnothisagain · 06/02/2021 11:57

Our school teaches a normal time table via zoom. no need forextra long days after lockdown.

stayathomer · 06/02/2021 11:57

Just because kids love school doesn't mean they want or need extra time there!!!! Educators are just going to have to figure out what to prioritize

MiddleClassMother · 06/02/2021 11:58

Our teachers are already overworked, I don't think they'll want to work anymore...

WombatChocolate · 06/02/2021 11:58

All these schemes are government attempts to show they are taking the issue seriously and doing something, but in reality will be very different to how people imagine them, have limited take up especially y those who most need them and cost loads for the taxpayer with minimal effect.

Sorry but it's the reality.

At best, extra sessions after school will be run by teachers hired for the purpose, not the school teachers who have done their day of work. Many delivering the info will be volunteers or 'tutors' of varying levels of quality. Materials will be generic and it simply cannot be targetted to the gaps an individual child has. It will have to be optional and many people won't choose to go. Those most disadvantaged and behind will be least likely to want to go. It will cost a vast sum of money and there will be a very limited effect.

News the time to set up a 'tutoring' organisation....plenty of government funded work will be available in a few months!

Government must be seen to do something and to offer something to deal with the gap between the affluent and the less affluent which has always existed and is expanding. Sadly, Covid has increased the gap and interventions will not be able to close it.

BonnesVacances · 06/02/2021 11:58

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Makingnumber2 · 06/02/2021 11:58

As others have said the proposals are for it to be extra curricular clubs etc not staffed by teachers I believe. Teachers are working normal hours currently- well my colleagues and other teacher friends all are- and government would struggle to get most of us to give even more time to school, even if paid (which government most likely couldn't afford/would refuse to fund anyway). I think if they can organise it with community groups and volunteers etc it will be wonderful for students to make up for lost time in sports and other clubs where they can socialise with their peers. However the DFE's current track record for being able to organise anything well is very poor and so I have my doubts as to whether they;ll pull this off. Most likely they'll shove it onto school leaders to set up, which will add more distractions for schools when we return properly, when what we need is to focus on helping our students get back into rhythm of working in classroom and completing the rest of their studies for the year.

TheLetterZ · 06/02/2021 11:59

On the why couldn’t teacher do that bit extra, firstly where would the money come from? But even if there was extra money I wouldn’t take it up. I can not do more. That will obviously vary from teacher to teacher.

Teaching online is hard work, you don’t get the feedback/ energy from the kids and you can’t use an many independent tasks as a lot won’t engage.

Then you have to mark more than usual as you don’t know how much anyone has participated. This is then followed with the round of chasing for missing work.

Plus changing the resources to make them online friendly, we have moved to OneNote but it all takes time.

For teachertapp I added up my hours, I work 8-6 weekdays and then 5 ish hours on a Sunday, giving myself Saturday off.

I am NOT saying teachers are working harder than anyone else, and in any industry there will be a huge variation in the effort being put it. But my hours are not unusual and I personally, can not do more.

Puzzler333 · 06/02/2021 12:00

@Iknowwhatudidlastsummer

If it's PE, or fun activities (primary) I am all for it.

The school days in England are far too short. It doesn't mean they should spend more time sitting down in lessons.

Teaching as such? no.

This would be great. PE, music, art, or just games that allow them to socialise. This is what they need. My class aren't missing out on English and maths learning much. They are missing out on social opportunities massively. I also know which one will affect their future lives more...

When my Year 6s come back physically in to school, well be glad in the knowledge that we've taught the whole curriculum and our year group can focus on revising key English and maths skills and doing loads of fun, creative, social, active other learning.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 06/02/2021 12:01

‘The Unions don’t support online lessons’

Incorrect. They didn’t last term as there were safeguarding loopholes.

They are 100% behind them this term. But a school doesn’t have to provide live lessons. It’s up to the school.

year5teacher · 06/02/2021 12:01

Like, I already leave work at 5pm every day at the moment (which is earlier than in normal times) and don’t get home until half past, so if I was teaching until 5 I wouldn’t get home until like 7pm every night to then get up at 6 the next day. No thanks.

It’s a job, not something I want to give up the rest of my life for. I’m sure there will be many people coming along to say they literally live at work and never go home ever Grin I’d be happy to do some extra stuff over summer - I would definitely take that over longer work days which wouldn’t even benefit the children anyway!

PurpleFlower1983 · 06/02/2021 12:02

It won’t be teachers without a pay rise. Teacher pay slips say 27.5 hours.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 06/02/2021 12:03

@FizzyPepsi Which unions are anti remote learning? Mine certainly isn't.

FizzyPepsi · 06/02/2021 12:03

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MrsHamlet · 06/02/2021 12:03

@FizzyPepsi

The unions don't support online lessons *@Arobase* and have actively tried to get them banned in many areas.
You're talking nonsense
HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 06/02/2021 12:04

@FizzyPepsi Even the DfE has said that online learning doesn't have to be live lessons as there is no evidence live lessons lead to more learning.

mollypuss1 · 06/02/2021 12:04

Have the people on here shouting about how they won’t do it or won’t let their kids do it actually read any of the news reports? The one’s I’ve seen say it is to extend the school day by providing children with additional activities/clubs run by community groups and volunteers to help with improving their mental health. It has been stated in every report I’ve seen that it is not additional classroom learning and teachers will not be expected to work longer hours. It is not untrained volunteers teaching maths. Most importantly it’s noting more than a suggestion that will most likely never see the light of day.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 06/02/2021 12:05

Ah so turns out they aren't anti remote learning at all. Hmm

FizzyPepsi · 06/02/2021 12:05

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ancientgran · 06/02/2021 12:06

You only have to watch someone being interviewed on TV to realise the problems you'd have with live lessons. If the BBC can't get a perfect result with their resources what chance has a school got?

Live lessons must create a problem in families where children have to share the only computer. I can't see why people seem to think they are the answer.

motherrunner · 06/02/2021 12:06

@FizzyPepsi

This was the NEU's guidance during the first lockdown: "In guidance sent to members, the country’s largest education union warned: “Teachers should not livestream lessons from their homes, nor engage in any video-calling".

edtechnology.co.uk/covid-19/dont-video-call-or-live-stream-lessons-during-shutdown-neu-urges-teachers/

Meanwhile private schools had live online lessons from day 1.

I teach in a state school. I taught live lessons “from day 1’.

But like PP said even the dfe guidance data states there is no benefit of live over pre-recorded.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 06/02/2021 12:07

It was the NEU. But they back it now.

Remember the Zoom in Japan, where someone hacked into an online lesson and cascaded hard porn into it? Safeguarding was a big reason. And also the highly likelihood that teens could record their teachers and upload it to YouTube or whatever.

However Fizzypeosi, this evil union is currently doing fund significant fund raising amongst member st fund laptops for students that the government won’t supply. Bastards eh?

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