Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

fizzypepsi ... yes, they already do way over their contracted hours. Schools run 'the extra stuff' on goodwill. Schools trips, discos, concerts, shows, rehearsals, weekend sports events, clubs, television sessions etc.

The pay incorporates 39 weeks in school plus 6 weeks holiday pay.

@yomommasmomma if you think you've got capacity then great- go for it! Look forward to hearing all about the latest campaigns and action plans you've come up with to help address the root causes of why some children are disadvantaged and vulnerable.

In the meantime, respect those who are saying they don't have capacity to do more and are already doing all they can rather than laying on goady guilt trips. It isn't very becoming.

[quote ElliFAntspoo]@cantkeepawayforever

Please excuse me if I work my additional hours for those children who DO face this additional challenges.
The funny thing is, those are the very parents who do not feel entitled to your time and effort.[/quote]
No, and it is that very fact that keeps me going on their behalf. The piles of 10ps to pay back the free trip 'because I can't take the money'. The apologies for taking up my time. The 'no, there'll be someone who needs it more than me'.

Even if I was prepared to do longer hours at school to help kids catch up, it isn't in the best interest of the pupils. The pupils who need the most "catch up" are the pupils who are least able to make the most of longer days of school. I'm thinking of the kids who can't ever concentrate in the afternoons because they find school difficult, or they have emotional problems, or MH problems, or SEND. Making them spend longer in school, sitting at a desk, attempting to learn something difficult isn't going to help them catch up. It's more likely to alienate them even further, as they still can't do it, they'll be in even more trouble for not concentrating, they'll have even more behaviour problems, their mh will suffer even more.

Children need more time to be able to do the normal children things. Swimming lessons, Brownies/cubs, sports, hanging round with their mates at the park, etc. They certainly don't need more time in a classroom with 30 other children and one teacher. If we need to catch kids up then more "teacher time" could help, but that should be in the form of smaller groups rather than longer hours.

The parents who my OH rings every week to chase up because their child hasn't shown their face on any online lessons since January and isn't doing any work and still they don't care.

This is the real issue.

Also, if the government wanted me to work last summer to "make up my directed time", I would have very carefully logged every hour spent prior to lockdown on after school clubs, after school revision, phoning home to parents etc. And then logged all the hours I put in over lockdown, including the bank holiday I worked unpaid supervising key worker children in school.

I don't think there would have been a shortfall- if anything, even last year I probably exceeded my directed time!

Should teachers be allowed to stop working once they hit their directed time for the year?

suspect the government could have (and perhaps should have) instructed teachers to work over summer to make up their directed time shortfall from the first lockdown.*

What bloody shortfall? I work 3 days a week. I was working 5 in the last lockdown.

Imagine a world where banked directed time was a thing. If I stopped at that point I'd have been finished for the year in mid January.

My year 6 child was 2 years behind before COVID. I'd rather her be happy and stress free than have more hours at school. If I get the chance I wouldn't want her to be at school longer but school often have extra maths clubs after school and I can hardly say no when she's so far behind. So I'm not sure I'd have much choice.

I feel bad for the teachers.

@SansaSnark and this is why teachers should go back to working to rule- nothing outside 8.20-3.20 gets done. This would show those parents who think we aren't doing enough, and the government ,how broken and 'f-ed up our system really is and how it's been hanging by a shoe string and running on good will for decades.
Kiss goodbye to your chidren's assessment being marked- pretty much ever. Say bye bye to school trips and enrichment activities. No more school play or school musical evenings. Adios to lessons that are planned and up to date, engaging and stimulate quality learning. If we could all do that for a month, then resume normal business I think lots would think twice before whingeing.

My kids do not need more time at school.

I will not work more unpaid hours, i already work 100% for free.

I actually now fully support a work to rule when we return. Let those in charge and parents see how much they actually pay for, some people will be shocked, some won't and some won't care.

@Makingnumber2
Agree 100%. NHS clinicians should do likewise.

I don’t ever want my child to adapt to 16 hour school days.

You really think 16 hours a day of academic learning is a good thing? I suppose it would benefit kids in abusive households in that they'd never actually be there

[quote FizzyPepsi]@SansaSnark

Children adapt. Clearly there will be teething trouble initially if a longer day was implemented, but the DC would soon get used to it.

As I've said, DC in South Korea attend school (and revision classes) for up to 16 hours a day. They cope absolutely fine as they are used to it and have adapted.[/quote]
I don't see a 16 hour day for children as desirable. It's not something I would want to work towards. They might cope, but I don't want the children I teach to be "coping". I want them to be thriving.

For a lot of children what they have missed is the chance to socialise, the chance to play team sports, the chance to do activities because facilities are closed. They need the time to spend on this more so than they need to catch up to wholly arbitrary educational targets.

Can you name a single bit of content that is taught in Y11 that it would be life ruining not to know?

Teachers are responsible to do their job...to work the hours they are paid for and do the tasks they are contracted to do. Many work far more hours than specified already.

It is not the job or responsibility of individual teachers to take the burdens of the world or consequences of a pandemic on their shoulders. It is not their personal responsibility to reverse neglect or to counter the effects of parents who don’t do their job. How could it ever fall on one person or group of individuals in a workplace to do this.

Anyone who suggests that teachers who aren’t willing to push themselves beyond their contract, or even more ridiculously to get up before 6 and keep working beyond 10pm at night, so they can atone for the difficulties children have faced during Covid, has totally missed what the job of teaching is. It isn’t to be a saviour, who makes personal sacrifices with no limits.

When people write these kind of comments Yommo, it makes me feel less willing to do the extra I already do on a weekly (not occasional) basis. It makes me want to work to rule and to stick rigidly to my contract...which of course would be entirely acceptable and no-one will ever lose their job, for simply fully doing their job.

But luckily, I appreciate this is all designed to wind people up and although there are lots of people in society who don’t realise the hours teachers work or how stretched the system is, or that it’s governments commitment to fund it properly that causes the problems, rather than teachers, most people don’t believe that it is in individual teachers to solve all the ills disadvantaged children have faced during Covid, to the extent of saying they should get up before 6 to work harder and that when they’ve worked until 10pm, they should stay up longer to do more for those poor children.

Spend your time writing to government to ask for more funding for schools and more teachers on an ongoing basis. That would be more productive than berating individual teachers who already work 50+ hour weeks. But I don’t suppose you will do that as it might not be so instantly rewarding as being on here.

@SansaSnark learning about prohibition in 1920s USA on a laptop rather than in a classroom is clearly going to ruin lives forever!

@yomommasmomma

So you choose to insight the children who have neglectful or abusive parents?
No. Read the post. The word is 'insult' and I choose to insult THE PARENTS who are abusive or neglectful of their children.

Social workers are refusing to come into school for meetings/assessments with some of our most troubled students yet I don't spend hours slagging them off on the internet. Some of you seem to be confusing kids from abusive homes (for whom an extra lesson each day will change nothing) with kids who have struggled academically

A teaching meme floated around my fb for a bit last week.

Something like: How has it got to the point that schools are not only responsible for learning, but also childcare, social work, mental health support. food distribution, public health, counselling, educational and behavioural psychologist, child welfare etc etc etc.

It’s like schools are suddenly responsible for every multi agency thing possible.

No I don't want to. I want to spend it with my own child.
My own child comes first.

[quote ElliFAntspoo]@yomommasmomma

So you choose to insight the children who have neglectful or abusive parents?
No. Read the post. The word is 'insult' and I choose to insult THE PARENTS who are abusive or neglectful of their children.[/quote]
Sorry that was my typo! I mean you are choosing to further punish the children of these parents?

I would think most people would know there will always be goady fuckers particularly on here.

Those who genuinely were blind to how hard teaching is will have figured it out trying to homeschool.

You don’t need to do a work to rule for people to know this.

I don’t expect teachers to work longer hours often costing money for childcare. I don’t think most sane normal people do.

[quote FizzyPepsi]@Chosennone

This 'teachers aren't paid for holidays' schtick is baloney. This may be the technical position- but it's not actually the case at all.

They are paid an annual salary- it just so happens they only actually work 39 weeks a year. As opposed to 47 for other sectors.

If they're only paid for 32 hours per week, they're then paid over £1000 a week or £31 an hour. I'm willing to bet that virtually every other person in every other sector getting paid that amount will work beyond their contracted hours.[/quote]
This is the funniest thing I’ve seen for ages. Paid over £1000 a week 🤣🤣🤣 could you please let me know the name of the school that pays that much 🤣🤣🤣🤣