What would have happened if everyone stayed at home in WW2

[IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021]

So reading lots of different threads tonight arguing for and against lockdown. How it is not safe and the comparisons to WW2 has got me thinking?

What would have happened if at the start of national service everyone just said no? So instead of fighting they stayed home to protect everyone cause then maybe we would not get bombed? So the war was to protect our freedom and our rights. This virus vs lockdown is now very similar. Protect the NHS? Destroy your own life?

As far as I know CEV was not a thing then. National service was compulsory so how would that have worked? I understand some people got to opt out but where thought of very badly unless severely disabled.

Let's face it not one single person who entered that war or stayed behind was safe.

I wonder what happened with medics then as obviously this predates the NHS. People died. It was sad but we fought for our lives. None of that involved staying in our houses watching Netflix!

Medics, technicians all were conscripted. Where would we have been if everyone wanted to stay safe?

@bluebluezoo

As far as I know CEV was not a thing then. National service was compulsory so how would that have worked? I understand some people got to opt out but where thought of very badly unless severely disabled

Of course it was. Obviously not using the same terms but do you really think they shipped men with leukaemia, or downs syndrome, or cystic fibrosis, or even near blind off to fight in the war?

And it wasn’t “opt out” either. You have to pass a medical to join up, and if you didn’t pass you didn’t pass, end of.

There was no “thinking badly” of them or men deciding to go anyway. Dh’s dad has a blood disorder, discovered when he went to join up. So he was sent home.

You may want to brush up on your history a bit.

Somehow missed this gem.

Beyond the fact as pointed out people in a CEV category wouldn't have passed the medical, how long do you think someone with a severe life limiting illness would survive in an active warzone?

We've moved passed that fortunately, and protect and support people with disabilities so that they don't need to risk their lives in a situation which wouldn't be so dangerous for someone able-bodied.

The Nazis eliminated their CEV and anyone else they didn’t like - which is why Anne Frank and family hid in an annexe for two years to save their lives. The Nazis were inhuman and war criminals. Let’s not forget that.

The "cowering at home" phrase is beloved of anti maskers/anti vaxxers/covid deniers and the like. It is a particularly vile phrase implying cowardice.

I "cower at home" as much as I can as if I caught the virus and was ill there woudl be no one to look after my disabled DH (who also mostly "cowers at home" anyway because he is fairly housebound in normal times), let alone what might happen if I passed it to him.

@Shodan I have friends of a similar age to your mum. Thankfully they are of a kinder disposition. Sorry for your loss though.

@bluebluezoo

As far as I know CEV was not a thing then. National service was compulsory so how would that have worked? I understand some people got to opt out but where thought of very badly unless severely disabled

Of course it was. Obviously not using the same terms but do you really think they shipped men with leukaemia, or downs syndrome, or cystic fibrosis, or even near blind off to fight in the war?

And it wasn’t “opt out” either. You have to pass a medical to join up, and if you didn’t pass you didn’t pass, end of.

There was no “thinking badly” of them or men deciding to go anyway. Dh’s dad has a blood disorder, discovered when he went to join up. So he was sent home.

You may want to brush up on your history a bit.

Indeed. My grandfather couldn't fight in the Second World War because he had part of a foot missing. He was in one of the groups of people who went to London to help search bombed buildings for the dead and injured. He could do that because there wasn't a bloody pandemic to deal with. Just war instead.

I hope the op has gone off to educate herself on wars and pandemics and the difference thereof.

If everyone in the world had stayed at home then German soldiers wouldn’t have invaded Poland and there wouldn’t have been a war

I don't think @IsurviveonCoffeeandWinein2021 is ever coming back to their thread to explain the points made in their OP ...

What do you mean? Just stayed put while Britain was invaded? What would have happened - well, we wouldn't be here on Mumsnet because an outspoken site like this wouldn't be allowed under a Nazi regime (assuming that had lasted). Those of us who were sufficiently Aryan to be allowed their lives and 'freedom' would be typing about what wonderful housewives we were and the marvellous job the government is doing.

To be fair movement was more restricted because fewer people travelled outside their immediate area, there was petrol rationing and simpler lifestyles.
That said, without restrictions, Spanish flu took an estimated 20 million to 50 million lives because it run unfettered through the world.

The war years were miserable with a huge increase in crime and not the jolly time that propaganda tells you it was.

Interestingly, something similar was in the frame for the Spanish Flu years too (not that they are generally painted as a jolly time though). A major effect of that novel flu pathogen was seen on the brain as well as in the more obvious symptoms. This could range from patients falling into confusion, through a spectrum to outright violence, and must have been quite shocking and with its own difficulties in terms of attempts to give treatment. Apparently certain factions took advantage of this to claim madness and infection as the scapegoat for getting away with widespread crime.

On the question of whether opting out of the 'obligations' of the war would have led to a better or worse result...it would have been unlikely that those who resisted would have celebrated success for long - either due to their own leaders and society, or their enemy's, or another course of history. There may be war memorials but there are very few memorials to victims of the Spanish Flu. This may be that a war has an end date, or at any rate, an end year, but a pandemic's effects and attacks are more elusive for us to be able to declare a true halt and we will only know with hindsight when the damage started to be mastered - it also depends even more on global ebbs and flows than most wars do.

My dad was 8 during WW2. He does not go around saying everyone should be more resilient. Quite the opposite. He had the top of his house blown off during it and him and his sister were evacuated miles from his parents which ruined them both,
Far from resilient, he coped as best as he could during the war and then for the rest of his life he spent coping. He's now an alcoholic, has been an alcoholic my whole life and I am very lc with him, his sister became a drug addict. Please don't make such comparisons I don't think it's comparable.

I'm sure there are many many people who will also suffer severely from this pandemic but it's not ok to go comparing it to other awful circumstances imo. This thread is so utterly depressing.

Also don’t forget that everyone who didn’t go off to war (the old the Diasbled the women etc ) were expected to ‘do their bit’ at home
So you’d have to be a fire watcher or someone who reinforces the blackout be a land girl digging for victory etc etc. My own nan was working in a munitions factory doing hard physical labour
Even the Queen did her bit by becoming a mechanic
My Nan was bombed out twice - it was an awful awful time.

This virus is hardly the same

Going to war, for many, was a grand lark, an adventure with their mates. Many soldiers described their attraction to the smart uniforms, shiny guns and marching. It wasn’t all selfless heroics. It’s much, much easier to trick young kids into dressing up and marching off to war with their mates than it is to stay home.

And if young men were less inclined to swagger off with their mates, governments might swing their dicks a bit less too, and be a bit less quick about declaring war on each other.

I think it’s very interesting to consider if people had been encouraged to stay at home and isolate during the Spanish flu pandemic, rather than the (ww1) war effort being the cynical priority, how many lives might have been saved. If saving lives instead of saving face had been a bigger priority to national leaders, maybe there would not have been a Second World War at all.

Going to war, for many, was a grand lark, an adventure with their mates. Many soldiers described their attraction to the smart uniforms, shiny guns and marching. It wasn’t all selfless heroics. It’s much, much easier to trick young kids into dressing up and marching off to war with their mates than it is to stay home.

I think you'll find for most of them the attraction wore off pretty quickly. Some of them may have felt that before they went, especially WWI, but for almost all that will have gone pretty quickly with the reality.
I think the WWII recruits had a better idea of what they were going into because they had relatives that had been involved in WWI.

They didn't all rush to join up because they were enthralled with being mini action men.
One of my grandads joined the RAFVR in 1938. He joined, not because he wanted to be involved particularly. He joined because he was afraid. He was afraid of war. His thought was that if he joined sooner rather than later then he'd have more training, which gave him a better chance. He survived. Many of his squadron didn't, especially if they joined up after war had begun. Some of them were up fighting having only been flying for less than 20 hours. It wasn't glamorous.
Ditto my other grandfather. I didn't know him, but he was called up upon war being declared as he had been in the army when younger. He was a desert rat. He took his little Brownie camera with him and took photos. I've got them. They look, to me, like a film set. My brain finds it hard to process that the picture, written on the back "incoming bomb Aug 1943. 5 killed RIP" with a picture of a upturned burning vehicle is real and there were real people inside.

Neither of them talked much about it.

What would've happened? The unthinkable...
I'm pretty sure we'd all be commenting on this thread in German too.

KizzyKat91
I’m really struggling to understand your posts. How would staying home during WW2 have kept people safe? We would have been taken over. The only way to win the war and prevent genocide in other countries was by fighting. And FYI sometimes people did have to stay at home to prevent casualties - they had to turn off the lights, pull down the blackout blinds and hide in the Anderson shelter instead of going down the pub!

The only way to fight the “Coronavirus War” is by reducing transmission and preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed. We do this by staying at home as much as possible and not mixing with others. We can channel the wartime spirit by abiding by the rules and trying to keep as positive and cheerful as positive. It’s the whole “stiff upper lip” and “keep calm and carry on” rhetoric.

I think that’s why people compare the current situation with the war. We’re facing an incredibly challenging and anxiety inducing situation, arguably the worst since WW2, and the only way we will get through it is by following the rules as mandated by the government and trying not to panic.

^This is by far the best, most sensible post on this thread

Going to war, for many, was a grand lark, an adventure with their mates. Many soldiers described their attraction to the smart uniforms, shiny guns and marching. It wasn’t all selfless heroics. It’s much, much easier to trick young kids into dressing up and marching off to war with their mates than it is to stay home

Someone I know had a fantastic war. Him and his unit were sent to Canada to guard the country when the fighting got to there. He said as there was nothing to do they all got jobs in the local town and so were drawing their army pay and working in a bar. Some didn’t go back as they married local girls. My friend said he was very sad when it came to an end and had to go back to a normal job and a singular pay check.
I don’t think everyone had a horrible time.

And they didn’t whinge about it like people are whinging about lockdown.

Of course they whinged about it.
Maybe you need to,do,some more social history research.
And there were also,so,e totally against it

All this nostalgia about war time spirit is nonsense. People got through it. They had their lives turned upside down. Of course lots of them complained about it at the time.

What you didn't have was social media and the likes but do you really believe people weren't complaining about it to their mates and family over the fence?

How can anyone possibly know no one whinged 😂😂 total BS.

Oh and re school - school did not go on as normal for many many children. I have all of our school's headteacher log books from when it opened. They're like a headteacher diary of key events. Starts with lots of information in 1903. It peters out gradually

Both ww1 and ww2 are mentioned in the books. Closures did happen, sometimes for weeks and months at a time. Teachers were drafted off to work elsewhere - sometimes other schools, sometimes for other government jobs, sometimes just sent home.. obviously remote learning wasn't a thing.

But yes - children's education was halted and disrupted throughout both wars, including closures.

National service was compulsory so how would that have worked?

There were medical exemptions, plus other War work. Some fit young men were assigned to mines (Bevin Boys) rather than to fighting. Those with medical conditions were assigned to ther critical roles such as others into food production, or keeping the railways open or whatever.

For people just to have stayed home (the equivalent of everyone going out as usual now) andsocier as we know it would end. In different ways, but a permanent change.

We would have lost the war (US would not have been able to assist Europe without Britain as a staging post) and Europe would be Germanic, and the genocide could have been completed - Jews, gypsies, the disabled and whoever else was deemed 'unworthy'. We would have a Western European dictatorship and the Iron Curtain might have lasted longer, with less difference between life on each side.

With uncontrolled pandemic, the mass deaths would be of the infirm and the (one hopes) temporary collapse of NHS and all infrastructure in an uncontrolled first peak wouid cast a shadow which would bought a generation (economic and social crisis like none other), with pretty dismal health outcomes for a generation or more (so many HCPs dead, consequences including deaths from chaotic interruption to all other health care and MH consequences of the horror of mass death event that lasts for a good few months

But yes - children's education was halted and disrupted throughout both wars, including closures

Or evacuation - I had a relative teaching in London at the outbreak of WW2 and she and all her pupils were sent to Yorkshire (whether they wanted to go or not)

Education was very badly disrupted by WW2. Schools in many big cities were evacuated at the start of September 1939, and as the assumption was that virtually all children would go with the school there was very little provision made for those who did stay in the cities. A great many children did stay, though, and many others returned from the country within weeks, when the Blitz didn't start, as many had feared it would. These children were not properly catered for. School leaving age was 14, hardly anyone took public exams. Nobody was bothering very much about whether children were in school or not, so many simply weren't.

In both cities and the country villages to which city schools had been evacuated, a shift system was used, so some children went to school in the morning or afternoon rather than a whole day. Some evacuees were very lucky with their host families, but many weren't, and were exploited for their labour or actually abused.

Then, of course, younger teachers started to disappear into the armed forces. Retired teachers returned, class sizes must have been huge (and they were already very large by modern standards). This can't have been great for the standard of education either.

Very few school leavers would have gone on to university in those days anyway, but during the war the number of bright teenagers going from school to university must have dried up to a trickle, and not all by any means would have been able to resume their academic career after the war.

You don't get that time back. A great many people born in the late 1920s, 1930s or early 1940s suffered all their lives from the disruption to their education.

DGM turned up for work one morning in the East end to find that the school she taught at was now a pile of rubble and she and her pupils had to move to the other end of the country away from their parents. So yes, quite disruptive. But on the upside she met my grandfather in the small village to which they were evacuated (he was exempt from military service due to a minor physical disability).

Some schools had bombs land on them in the school day. A quick Google found a school where 38children and 6 staff were killed in 1943, in Catford.

@pinkearedcow

And what did you mean by:

Medics, technicians all were conscripted. Where would we have been if everyone wanted to stay safe?

I think they mean that Front Line Health Care workers are disposable in the pandemic.