Surely it should not be beyond the wit of mankind/the DfE...

[drspouse]

to find large spaces to hold schools in that mean they can be socially distanced and/or in rotas?
Surely?
My DCs' schools are quite close together (primary but two different schools) and one is opposite a closed (well, distance learning) college. There are 2 secondary schools within walking distance and you could easily fit all of the primary years 4-6 plus half of the secondary schools into the college classrooms at 15 per regular sized classroom (or a whole class of 30 in a lecture hall).
Then the remaining pupils could socially distance and years R-3 could split into half sized groups (given we don't think they are very infectious but they are poorer at socially distancing and more likely to run riot on a college campus/break a village hall).

It would require the DfE to get their act together and provide:
Individual technology for the secondary school pupils and a classroom setup for the primary teachers plus portable equipment for the primary teachers.
Minibuses from each village/town area for each year (e.g. you'd have Year 7 Lower Wallop bus and Year 8 Hill Estate Bus) that serves the secondary school pupils (to get them to the college without being together on a bus and IMPORTANTLY to get them home again without congregating all together in town.)
DBS checks for all maintenance/caretaking staff on the college campus and in any other halls used.
Weekly PCR tests for all staff and ditto all secondary school pupils unless exempt.
Employing a full time TA per primary class of 30 so that half of them could have the TA and half the teacher and then swap over.
Mobile connections for all secondary pupils (where it's not e.g. a college) and for primary teachers' equipment.

What else have I forgotten that is actually just a matter of money not impossibility?

The primary school my DD is in also has 2 church halls in walking distance and there are others around and about.

I know not ALL schools could use other halls but surely it's better to send SOME children back rather than NO children back?

Even if there was the money:

No staff - who gets taught by the teacher, who gets taught be a TA in a hall?

Who are the TAs willing to do it?

Where are they coming from? TAs are pretty specialised often, it's not randoms off the street. It takes time to train someone, even if they want to do it.

Anyway, rotas are the way forward for primaries. Week on week off. 15 kids in a class, reduces family transmission links. Strict critical worker criteria, you only get it if all household adults are genuine frontline out of house working. In school focus on maths, English, PSHE and PE - other stuff at home using Oak. Not long term, but gives the best chances of reducing transmission.

What else have I forgotten that is actually just a matter of money not impossibility?

Not money, but... you've forgotten human nature (or teenage nature). Adults can't even follow the rules and socially distance in a supermarket... adolescents are even less likely to think it's important. I don't think the space would actually help as much as you'd hope!

[quote drspouse]@HadEnoughOfBears surely you are aware of this? To minimise flow in the corridors almost all the pupils were staying in their base and teachers were moving.[/quote]
Where do you think this is happening?

[quote drspouse]@HadEnoughOfBears surely you are aware of this? To minimise flow in the corridors almost all the pupils were staying in their base and teachers were moving.[/quote]
That's not true.

@DelphiniumBlue

I'm not sure that 15 in a classroom is much safer than 30, tbh.

Certainly not when they all have to sit on a bus close together to get transported to a different school!

Firstly, where is all this space coming from? What about those children and schools that aren't close to a big town or city?

Secondly, transport. Have you any idea how expensive coaches and buses are? It's ridiculously expensive. When I was responsible for paying for coaches for school events it was around £500 for a coach.

Thirdly, staffing. You can't rely on TA's - they do a very specific job and many don't want to play the role of a teacher.

So
You’d need to swap teacher and TA at some point. Who watches the children while that happens? Who is there if the teacher or TA needs the loo?
Break times/lunch times? You need enough cover which must include first aid trained staff.
Lunches? They don’t just rock up and deliver them. It’s a logistics issue- things need heating, delivering to rooms and they have minimal staffing.
Younger children need younger children sized seating, toilets, sinks. Right up to year 5.
That’s off the top of my head.
No one EVER asked schools. We wanted rotas. Rotas could be done. Yes not ideal but at least everyone gets some school time. But no. The. Dfe said no rotas.

Sorry extra full stop.

Rotas were explicitly banned
Use of other spaces was explicitly banned

@MrsHamlet

Rotas were explicitly banned Use of other spaces was explicitly banned

Doesn't mean they are wrong and that they shouldn't be considered. After all, it's not like the government don't know how to do a U turn.

I don't disagree. Rotas would work for us very well

In many, many secondaries classes did NOT stay seated in one room with teachers moving around. This was wholly unworkable given different options and timetables.

Secondly, whilst it would be great to get kids back in school it's not really an option to split all primary classes and have a teacher in one half and a TA in the other. Those classes currently with a TA are typically using the TA as part of SEN support. This support will still be needed. There is a lack of experienced TAs in our area (we need to be clear that a TA is not the same as a parent helper) so i can't see where we'd find more of them, let alone ask them to be responsible solely for half a class - essentially doing the job of a teacher for much, much less pay!

Where you getting all these qualified ta's and teachers from, what about safeguarding - is building secure , etc etc

In what secondary were the classes sitting still whilst teachers went round in yr 10/11 anyway
My sons does gcse his mates in history may not do pe and his kate in pe may not be the same maths set.
Thats why bubbles are bigger in secondary
How do you propose parents her maybe multiple kids to different destinations, assuming you live somewhere that has lots of these large empty places
The one large empty place we have is being used for covid vacs

I like the fundamental idea. I just can't get my head round:
Mixing bubbles on minibuses
Enough toilet provision to keep bubbles separate
Enough lunch space keeping bubbles separate
Facilities for children with additional needs

Safeguarding: would all the venues have the necessary doors with glass panels.

The pressure on Headteachers who are almost broken already, to implement all the logistics, risk assessments etc.

[quote drspouse]@HadEnoughOfBears surely you are aware of this? To minimise flow in the corridors almost all the pupils were staying in their base and teachers were moving.[/quote]
Absolutely was not happening in any school here.

Even rotas may be an issue with the amount in some schools unless they we stricter with keyworkers if a class already has 15 kids in currently then half of say 15 off then means classes 22/23 better than 30 but not quite whats required
Secondary would be better although was suprised how many are actually in at my ds secondary this time around

[quote drspouse]@HadEnoughOfBears surely you are aware of this? To minimise flow in the corridors almost all the pupils were staying in their base and teachers were moving.[/quote]
and what kind of 'base' do you mean?

Where base = classroom.
I only know this because teachers on Mumsnet were talking about lugging their stuff around!

@ByTheStarryNight no, the minibuses are a replacement for school buses, and designed NOT to mix bubbles. Taxi drivers are really struggling and would be grateful for the business.

@HereWeGoAgainAgainAgain well TAs for a specific child with SEN should stay with that child. When my DD went back as a Y1 in June the class was spilt and a non-SEN TA was with half of it, the limitation was space. But my WHOLE POINT is that this WILL cost money and the schools could go back if they were properly funded.
Starry I did ask if I've missed anything.
Colleges, theatres etc have enough toilets for the people they already have in them usually. Many schools are having lunch in theIr classrooms.
I am not aware of glass in school doors as standard but clearly that IS something I missed but it's common in many public buildings e.g. a different college I used to go to language classes in has this.

They aren't going to do anything radical - it'll just be like last time community transmission down whoosh back in.

If your you propose using colleges where do you think the college students should go ? Or do they not matter

@drspouse

Where base = classroom. I only know this because teachers on Mumsnet were talking about lugging their stuff around!

@ByTheStarryNight no, the minibuses are a replacement for school buses, and designed NOT to mix bubbles. Taxi drivers are really struggling and would be grateful for the business.

@HereWeGoAgainAgainAgain well TAs for a specific child with SEN should stay with that child. When my DD went back as a Y1 in June the class was spilt and a non-SEN TA was with half of it, the limitation was space. But my WHOLE POINT is that this WILL cost money and the schools could go back if they were properly funded.
Starry I did ask if I've missed anything.
Colleges, theatres etc have enough toilets for the people they already have in them usually. Many schools are having lunch in theIr classrooms.
I am not aware of glass in school doors as standard but clearly that IS something I missed but it's common in many public buildings e.g. a different college I used to go to language classes in has this.

OK. So 200-ish kids in a year. Which classroom / base do they go to? Even if they're divided up into smaller numbers they all take a mixture of different subjects. Which subject / teacher is coming to their base?Think about it properly.

Just as a complete aside to all this blue sky thinking, I thought I would mention that ,at last time of checking fairly obsessively frequently many Danish schools were closed.

This pandemic even laughs in the face of sensible, cautious plans , let alone our gung ho abandon.

Ah yes... I was lugging my stuff around ... but so were the students. No base for anyone in my school.