Managers demanding admin team come back to the offce

[Peanutbutteryogurt]

Hoping for some advice here as need to send a reply email!

I work part time, two days a week at home and one day in the office to do printing and paperwork. This system has worked very well since April and as far as I knew was ongoing for the foreseeable future. We got an email from some manager who I have never met saying as of next shift everyone will be expected to work in the office, basically as we wear masks and if we socially distance it will be fine!

We have a small office, on any given day there could be up to 11 of us in the one office. We have some cardboard screens in-between some desks and we wear masks. It is impossible to distance at all times when we need to move around, put something in someone's tray etc. Managers are insisting the office is completely covid secure. It is quite clearly not.

Do I have any leg to stand on here? I desperately don't want to go in. I have stayed home to work today while I have an email back and forth with this manager and will go in tomorrow as my usual routine, but I am worried about next week.

As it happens, I work for the NHS in a hospital. We are literally just coming out of the peak of this wave and still have over 200 covid patients in the hospital.

Well I'm not a medical secretary, I am a band below so mainly typing. The secretaries themselves work on a rota basis from home. I go in weekly to print but don't spend much time there.

The screens are hard to describe. They are basically like a window, cardboard with a cling film screen in the middle to see. They are so horrible we find we have to stop ourselves leaning around them to speak to each other. They are not cleaned.

Do you have a union rep or health and safety officer? Tell them immediately. I would not be having this in my office. I'm very surprised the NHS would do this.

We have a full time covid cleaner who is constantly cleaning handles, communal areas etc, we wear masks if we leave our desks, we are all sat at least two metres apart, mess rooms are restricted capacity, we work on a rota so no more than five people are in the massive office at any one time. I could go on.

They can't just not put proper measures in place and expect you to go back.

@BBCONEANDTWO our medical secretaries are at home. Patient notes are electronic. The dictation system is web based. They can access the same computer systems we all use at home and make phone calls. We have one person in the office to do anything that can’t be done remotely, which is dramatically less than in pre-COVID times.
There is literally no way our hospital trust would allow this to happen OP. Social distancing has been taken really seriously. The risk of staff to staff transmission causing outbreaks is very real. If people have to come in they will have to find you space big enough fit the number of people.

Nothing surprises me with the NHS management now ...
DH works for NHS .. and is livid at the lack of social distancing.
No reduction in numbers . Colleague he sits beside tested positive last Friday , the other 7 in the team ... same room close contact .. asked “ do we self isolate ? “
No .... told to get on with it .
PS .. they are not indoors all the time ... nope ... they spend half of the day out and about with numerous amounts of patient contact .
Effectively this week they are all potential super spreaders ....all over the community but especially the sick and vulnerable...

You honestly couldn’t make this up ...
Upper 💩 show ...

Anyway as long as we all “ stay home to protect the NHS “ - sure won’t we all be grand 🙄🙄

I'm not in a union, tbh I have never considered that a lowly typist would need to be. I am sure there are health and safety officers but I would need to track down who they are. We don't actually have an mess/break rooms, so we have to eat at our desks wih our masks off.

Based on my conversation with the manager and some googling it looks like I don't have a leg to stand on, employers can ask you to go back at any time as long as your are not shielding.

babbi

Oh yes, we have also been told if someone in the office is positive we don't need to self isolate

Are the managers themselves going in? We have a similar set up in our work place and although managers have expected staff to go in they have rarely set foot in the office since last March

Nothing surprises me with the NHS management now ...
DH works for NHS .. and is livid at the lack of social distancing.

No reduction in numbers . Colleague he sits beside tested positive last Friday , the other 7 in the team ... same room close contact .. asked “ do we self isolate ? “
No .... told to get on with it .

You honestly couldn’t make this up ...

Anyway as long as we all “ stay home to protect the NHS “ - sure won’t we all be grand

This is the same as my NHS workplace. I get so angry when I see the "look him in the eye" adverts

@SilverGlitterBaubles

Are the managers themselves going in? We have a similar set up in our work place and although managers have expected staff to go in they have rarely set foot in the office since last March

Hmmm that seems like the manager don't care about their staff but care about themselves only. Different trusts have different ways of dealing I suppose.

In your situation I'd be talking to my colleagues and trying to come up with a joint position. If there are only 11 of you in the team surely you are friends with some?

Raise it with the chief medical officer tomorrow.
Meanwhile lay out what you think the risks to your health are. Ask for a copy of the risk assessment and nit pick it. The onus is on your employer to demonstrate that the workplace is safe. Legally they cannot sanction you for refusing to go in if you believe there is a real threat to your health (although your chances of arguing that successfully are massively reduced without union representation).

Oh, and join the union

Ive been back at work since June full time and we absolutely should not be there. It’s a disgrace.

This actual can’t be right so why has it changed so much in a day they just can’t click their fingers and expect that everyone is going to be ok when being dictated to.

What happens of your having to juggle wfh and also home schooling and can’t just arrange that your children would be taken care off by anyone in such short notice?

You can call the environmental health services if you feel like your work place is not following Covid safe guidelines and they would do an assessment.

Oh I actual feel for you I am dreading the time when I get told that I can go back into the office to work but tbh my employer is realistic about it in a way saying that will likely be after summer before that would even be likely and even then still looking at us working from home as much as possible especially weekends when only 2 in a office that has over 200+ in a weekday so thinks that working from home is the new norm for us 😏.

Another one not remotely surprised the NHS would do this. In many situations the NHS wants everyone else to stay at home but thinks it doesn’t apply to its own staff.

Can you send them the guidance that says to wfh if you can, and ask "where in this guidance does it allow for the division to decide to mandate in office working'? I accept it's a ballsy thing to do, but honestly.

Failing that I'd be tempted to whistleblow to a local paper what their local NHS team are up to...

We are not in the office atm . But when we were we had a written risk assesment and we all cleaned our own areas and had a rota fro communal areas . ( but I still wiped everything as I went round ) but we are lucky as we could ventilate the room. If you can’t then I would find that worrying as well .

One of or customers ( European) is insisting on all staff and visitors wearing certain qualified masks . So if I was you and you have to go in I would make sure you at least do that . It is a German company so as they have a better record than us I guess there is some research behind it .

In a more helpful note, see if your Trust has social distancing champions or something like that. They may be able to help you. I also like your idea of asking a question at the Q&A. They won’t want to publicly say they are not being Covid secure.

I despair... I run a small company and have been really clear with staff from the beginning that safety is paramount. I cannot afford to have them off sick (not to mention I value them and really quite like them). Covid security is not just about not spreading the virus, it's also about vauing your staff.

This actual can’t be right so why has it changed so much in a day they just can’t click their fingers and expect that everyone is going to be ok when being dictated to

This is what happened. It actually came secondhand in an email from our team lead which basically said "btw so and so have told me everyone is expected to work all their shifts in the office as of their next shift". We have no warning.

I think only one person effected has school.aged children and she is working the majority in the office then home early for an afternoon of homeschooling and working, I don't know the details as she works in another hospital in the same trust.

Are the managers themselves going in?

Well, here's another thing. Our teams actual line manager has gone to work in the vaccine hub full time and we have been told she doesn't do the manager role any more so basically leave her alone. The manager I have been dealing with is her equivalent at another hospital who I have never met before. I have no idea where she works on a day to day basis. Pre-vaccine hub our line manager worked at home plenty, seemed to need to self isolate about 50 times.

*In your situation I'd be talking to my colleagues and trying to come up with a joint position. If there are only 11 of you in the team surely you are friends with some?
*

I haven't had a chance yet. I found out on Thursday, I don't work Thursday or Friday as I am home with my toddler, I had annual leave yesterday and worked from home today while i formulated my emails and had the telephone assessment. The team themselves are fine, they won't be happy either but I doubt any of them are willing to do anything. They have all been there for years and seem rather worn down by NHS management

If you go onto your intranet and search for HR you will get a page come up which will include how to contact them. It will almost certainly be the same for health and safety (a dedicated page). My work have taken it seriously but yes it is true, if someone in the team has it and we had contact we don’t isolate- wearing masks and the reduction in numbers in the office is seen to be enough to mitigate risk 🙄 My team manager thinks it’s wrong but there’s nothing she can do. So far no one had had it ( well not symptomatically) and every single one us had now been vaccinated so hopefully we’ll escape it now.

Not necessarily on this thread but I've seen elsewhere people asking what is the difference from the first lockdown when all offices closed.
For me, our landlord has spent what I think must be in the thousands as they have more than one building to keep it safe for us tenants. They've put locks on toilet doors and 'kitchen' facilities so that only 1 person can be in at any time (toilet door from corridor before reaching cubicles), screens at receptions, hand sanitising stations at every entrance, additional cleaning during the day, dettol wipes in the toilets and kitchens for us tenants to use, hand towels instead of using the hand dryer. I feel much safer in the office than I do in the supermarket.

Are you as productive wfh as working in office? Maybe some staff are not and do need to go back in. Do you have children at home whilst you are working? How can you fill up paper trays and stuff for people in office if you are at home? Could you compromise and ho in 2 days and wfh for 1?

I’d look at your trusts policy/email central hr to find out what has centrally been decided then quote it to your manager. I would also express (as you have done) your fear of spreading covid and ask your manager if they believe you have been performing sub-optimally at home and if not you would like to continue working from home as it appears to be working for both the company and you. Perhaps also remind them that the government has asked everyone to work at home who can!

What a shit show! I would suggest you and all your colleagues make sure you have the NHS test and trace app to ensure you are all covered should one of you be in the office and test positive after - I don't see how your workplace could possibly dispute if the app tells you to isolate.