'Prison' and fines for gatherings?

[itsgettingweird]

Bare with me and this could have libertarian questions with our general way of life.

However it's quite clear the fines and increase fines are not stopping gatherings.
My concern isn't the fines etc but rather after these events the attendees could be spreading covid and I think people who are attending these events are less likely to self isolate.

So what about tightening laws that you go to 'prison' and receive a fine.

Except 'prison' is 10 days quarantine in a hotel. The fines are used to pay for the hotels helping the hospitality industry and cutting the chance of transmission from what may be a super spreader event.

The fines alone don't seem to be a deterrent and we need to do something and I think enforced quarantine is two fold.

I've always been quite relaxed about the odd breach on a low scale level (eg sitting in neighbours garden at SD for a coffee to MH) even though I haven't broken them myself but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to remain locked down whilst others go about their lives normally without caring about the consequences and probably adding to the numbers not dropping so quickly.

So is this a mad idea or is it something that could work and would be acceptable within society?

@Perpetualheadache

Imagine all the stressed out mums breaking the rules on purpose to get a 10 day hotel break 🤣

lol

If Boris announced tomorrow that general elections were suspended indefinitely to “stop the spread of covid”, there’d be people on here backing him up.

@AuntyClementine

If Boris announced tomorrow that general elections were suspended indefinitely to “stop the spread of covid”, there’d be people on here backing him up.

Yes there would

If they go to prison they risk spreading it there, fines dont always get paid, the guilty negative tested covidiots should do community service helping in hospitals, carehomes and mortuaries.

@DogsSausages

If they go to prison they risk spreading it there

They may be imprisoned in special facilities?

@itsgettingweird

It's not really a prison sentence under law but an enforced quarantine under law to be out in the covid laws

Yes, detention and fines should be lawfully obviously

@HorseOfPhillipMoss

How do you stop people just leaving the hotels? It's not the role of a travel lodge receptionist to become a prison officer. Also if owned a hotel the last people I would want there are those as irresponsible as to have mass gatherings during a global pandemic.

Good point. There would have to be police and a law to state if they leave they will be arrested

Moon good point well presented. It was more because I didn't mean prison as in an actual cell. But you're right I do mean imprisoning them for forced quarantine.

Good point about children. Perhaps they have to go to hotel too? They aren't at any more risk then being home with their parents?

@faerin

If the penalty for breaking a law is a fine, then that law only exists for the poor. As we know, there have been plenty of wealthy people and celebrities throwing parties and big events and it's obviously worth it for them because the fines are just a drop in the ocean compared to how much wealth they have.

What fucks me off is when the police have been trying to fine regular working-class people or targeting minorities aggressively for not even doing anything that could spread covid but are fined "because rules". Footage of police brutality to people in all this has been absolutely horrifying.

The way this is being handled through fines - and also the fact that unlike what you are proposing, there has never even been any talk of isolating afterwards to stop the spread - it isn't even about covid. The handling of this has made it clear it's about punishing poor people, not stopping the spread of covid.

Yes. I think this is what's made me think this may be necessary. People don't seem to care about fines or risk of them.

I'd also be very interested to know how fines are enforced and how much people are paying a week etc.

There isnt really an easy way to sort this.

But I am concerned about the number of mass gatherings we hear about.

Didnt the the army help enforce the rules in Australia, what a shame it comes to this because a few just can't or won't follow the advice and rules.

Yes I do t want prison as such or criminal record. I get why people are doing this. But I also am finding it much harder this lockdown and think enforced quarantine maybe a bigger or risk deterrent to fines.

I could be wrong. As pointed out here there are many flaws in the plan.

@AuntyClementine

Detention without trial sounds like a great idea. Then all we need to do is ban peaceful protest and abolish elections “for public safety” and we’ve gone full on authoritarian nightmare! Get in!!

Removing potentially infectious people to designated places for testing and isolation is a provision of the coronavirus emergency powers Act

Creating new jobs, even temporary ones, is surely a good thing at a time when so many businesses are going belly up

Not attending illegal raves and huge parties isn't that difficult to achieve if you don't want 10 days in a travelodge

And presumably the arrangements for any DC could be the same lines as if 10 days hospitalisation of parent/s was required

We've all had to have 'oh fuck' plans for months now to cover 10 days or so when everything comes toma sudden and complete halt

I actually think many people might be encouraged by the thought of staying in a hotel lol

Creating new jobs....hmm....a whole new industry based around Covid.....which would lead to a vested business interest in keeping Covid profitable for some....I'm a bit wary of that.....

Loss of driving licence, passport, job etc would all work better than just a fine. It should show on a criminal record too so would have to be declared on crb checks and therefore future job prospects etc.

If fines for lockdown breaches are no longer serving as a deterrent, perhaps there needs to be a realisation that the citizenry no longer consents to these laws?

This is the part people keep forgetting.

Laws only work when enough people consent to them.

Every day that passes, less and less people consent to these laws. It's only a matter of time.

Do you think forced detention (and apparently we are now cool with detaining children too) will do more or less to hasten the withdrawal of public support?

There is 96% compliance with the rules so perhaps adjust your totalitarian gaze. You sound insane - quite frankly, terrifying.

Fara that's exactly my thinking.

Money to hospitality, jobs and removing possibly infectious people after possible super spreader events.

Of course PPE etc would be provided.

Hearing about SA variant taking off it angers me more that people so blatantly just don't care.

@MammaMiaWallace

There is 96% compliance with the rules so perhaps adjust your totalitarian gaze. You sound insane - quite frankly, terrifying.

Trust me I'm not! Was just thinking allowed about how we can prevent spread from these events and perhaps also increase jobs and money to hospitality.

I work in a school. Everyday I'm in a classroom. I just think supermarket staff, police, school staff and possibly transport staff as well as their colleagues are at increased risk. These are people doing what they can to keep themselves, families and their service users safe.

@MammaMiaWallace

There is 96% compliance with the rules so perhaps adjust your totalitarian gaze. You sound insane - quite frankly, terrifying.

It’s chilling. When I first responded I thought it might be tongue in cheek, but it appears the OP is serious. Some people really seem to revel in the idea of more restrictions, more sanctions, more misery.

How many people are actually paying these fines? There was an illegal rave in Plymouth and the young people questioned about why they were there.

They said they hated the government and the virus didn’t affect them....

I bet you they would claim they don’t have any money (I would fine the parents).

So although there is a fine to pay bar the celebrities who just pay it and say sorry I do wonder who is actually paying these fines.

Rita Ora was so so stupid. She knew exactly what she was doing. Paying the fine is a rounding error for her.

I wish she was fired from anything she was doing to hopefully give out a strong message.

No I am serious about the idea of quarantine after possible super spreader events.

But I'm also able to see my idea isn't a good one when you look at the bigger picture of how it works and the implications of Liberty.

And I did mention in my first line it probably had libertarian issues.

But that doesn't stop my concern it could undo all the good being done if - for example - the SA variant spread at an event and out to wider community.

But it's clearly a much bigger thing then I had considered. Doesn't make it scary. It just makes it an idea that couldn't work.

@Moonstone1234

How many people are actually paying these fines? There was an illegal rave in Plymouth and the young people questioned about why they were there.

They said they hated the government and the virus didn’t affect them....

I bet you they would claim they don’t have any money (I would fine the parents).

So although there is a fine to pay bar the celebrities who just pay it and say sorry I do wonder who is actually paying these fines.

Rita Ora was so so stupid. She knew exactly what she was doing. Paying the fine is a rounding error for her.

I wish she was fired from anything she was doing to hopefully give out a strong message.

I also question about the fines being paid.

Years and years ago our neighbour was fine costs after a course case and he was ordered to pay £1 a week because he said he couldn't afford it.

Managed to keep buying drugs though!

No you cant put people in prison without a trial. Even if its "prison". Think about those two women who were fined for walking 5 miles from home with a coffee, a few days later they recieved an apology and the fines were waived. They would have already spent 3 days in the hotel, unable to work and earn, see their family etc. And who would pay for those 3 days now that they aren't required to pay a fine anymore?