Will children / families become second class citizens until vaccinated?

[McCorona]

So as far as I can work out, there are no plans afoot to vaccinate children. In fact I don't believe the vaccines have even been licensed for kids yet.
But if we'll all need vaccination passports to fly / go on foreign holidays / attend to concerts and large scale events etc, does this mean that children (and the adults accompanying them) will be excluded from such things? Even if only for the next few years while the vaccines are tested and licensed for kids.

I won’t expect kids to be excluded because there’s no vaccine for kids.
I suppose It’ll be those who are eligible for the vaccine but refuse it that’ll be exempt if airlines, etc say anyone over a certain age need an immunity passport to board or attend a service.

I assume most of those things won’t be happening this year, and hopefully by then they will have enough data for the vaccines to be passed for children.

aiui, b/c they have far fewer ace2 receptors children arent at risk of serious covid?

I can't see anyone insisting on vaccine passports etc for children. The government has been quite vocal about schools/children being the priority.

I could be wrong though.

The vaccines haven't been tested for under 16s so children won't be getting them until 2022 at the very earliest.
I can foresee discrimination; even if it's not legal to demand vaccine passports for kids in this country, other countries might not want unvaccinated people travelling.
And I can certainly imagine older people not wanting to sit near to (unvaccinated) kids on public transport and in restaurants.

I have just read another thread that says Pfizer are now running trials with 12-16 year olds. Where does this leave families with younger kids?

If the vaccine doesn't stop transmission then why do you need to have it to do anything? It only protects the person who has had the jab. People are being forced to have it in order to have a normal life like going abroad

We are an international family so I really want some sort of solution to this problem. Not everyone brings children on a plane for foreign holidays, shits and giggles---for some people, it's about seeing grandparents or attending a boarding school overseas for essential reasons.

I would like to see some sort of compromise once adults are mostly vaccinated. "All accompanying adults must be vaccinated, children must submit negative test results either side of a couple of days quarantine" might be OK as tests get quicker and more reliable.

If the vaccine doesn't stop transmission then why do you need to have it to do anything?

It almost certainly does stop or drastically reduce transmission.

I think the big challenge is going to be places like NZ. I can't see them being comfortable with allowing unvaccinated children into the country, they have staked so much on the zero COVID thing.

@Kokeshi123

If the vaccine doesn't stop transmission then why do you need to have it to do anything?

It almost certainly does stop or drastically reduce transmission.

No this one really doesn't prevent transmission! Fact check needed

@Kokeshi123

If the vaccine doesn't stop transmission then why do you need to have it to do anything?

It almost certainly does stop or drastically reduce transmission.

This isn't yet proven, is it?

I would be very keen to understand this better, as it seems key to whether things are going to improve much with the vaccine.

Or rather how much they will improve, even if the vaccine has little impact on transmission, it improves outcomes of course.

For the vaccine to not stop or at least greatly reduce transmission it would need to.... basically work in a way that is different to basically every other vaccine that we already use. Which seems unlikely.

Scientists keep saying "We don't know" because of (over) caution.

Currently a lot of airports test on arrival or expect a negative pcr test but children are exempt. The age limit differs by country. I imagine that the same will happen for travel when it opens up again. Adults may have to be vaccinated but children are exempt although personally I find it difficult to see how all different countries with different kinds of proof will be accepted especially where these are easy to forge. More likely air travel corridors will reopen with countries who have sufficiently low levels of virus in general circulation.

@Kokeshi123

For the vaccine to not stop or at least greatly reduce transmission it would need to.... basically work in a way that is different to basically every other vaccine that we already use. Which seems unlikely.

Scientists keep saying "We don't know" because of (over) caution.

It does also depend on how quickly the virus mutates. Is a vaccine passport that useful if the vaccine only has a low efficacy against certain strains? Will there be different classes of vaccine passport depending on what vaccine you have had and its relative efficacy?

@McCorona

But if we'll all need vaccination passports to fly

No one will need a vaccination passport to fly

@Kokeshi123

For the vaccine to not stop or at least greatly reduce transmission it would need to.... basically work in a way that is different to basically every other vaccine that we already use

These Covid vaccines are completely different to the ones already in use for other illnesses, so may work in completely different ways, yes

@Kokeshi123

I can foresee discrimination; even if it's not legal to demand vaccine passports for kids in this country, other countries might not want unvaccinated people travelling

You would be discriminating adults, if you allow an unvaccinated child to fly but require an adult to be vaccinated

@Kokeshi123

For the vaccine to not stop or at least greatly reduce transmission it would need to.... basically work in a way that is different to basically every other vaccine that we already use. Which seems unlikely.

Scientists keep saying "We don't know" because of (over) caution.

Actually, the RNA vaccines, such as the Pfizer one do work in a different way to most other vaccines. The Oxford one is a more traditional one.

So that is why scientists are cautious.

But it is very likely the vaccine will reduce transmission, yes.

[quote trulydelicious]@McCorona

But if we'll all need vaccination passports to fly

No one will need a vaccination passport to fly[/quote]
Your statement that no one will need vaccine passports to fly is no more certain than my prediction that we might.
Nobody knows yet, just as nobody knows to what extent vaccine might prevent transmission.
I'm just musing on difficult decisions that the world potentially faces as we attempt to return to "normal".

*It almost certainly does stop or drastically reduce transmission.

I have not been able to find anyevidence that the vaccine stops or even reduces transmission , only that those vaccinated had much milder symptoms. *

@Kokeshi123 I'd be glad if you would point me towards the research.

@FinallyHere there isn't a lot of data at the moment because the vaccine is so new and a relatively small proportion of most countries have been given it. However the data from Israel looks as though it doesn't completely stop transmission but it does slow the rate significantly especially after the 2nd dose.

inews.co.uk/news/world/covid-vaccine-israel-vaccination-roll-out-transmissibility-programme-palestine-834999

Early evidence that the vaccines stop transmission.
Oxford
covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/breakthrough-global-covid-19-vaccine
Pfizer
www.thejournal.ie/pfizer-ceo-5323949-Jan2021/

thank you very kindly, for the links re transmission

I have them open on my screen to read inbetween times today, and properly later on thsi evening.