If my neighbour's smoke is getting in, will their Covid particles too?

[MiraWard1]

We have some gym equipment in our garage. Our garage is on the end of a row of 3. We have new neighbours with the garage at the other end (so there's one garage in between).

The new neighbours seem to have turned their garage into a sort of 90s pub with smoking and darts etc.

Their cigarette smoke gets into our garage, which is unpleasant at the best of times, and more so when wanting to exercise.

We can't ask them not to smoke in their own garage (though I suspect they smoke there because it's rented and not allowed to smoke in the house). We will be having some work done on ours in a few months and will have it sealed off then.

But a worrying thought struck me: if their smoke particles are seeping into our garage in concentration enough that we can smell it, would COVID particles travel in the same way.

And if they could, (as a brief google suggests, though with little evidence), would enough make it through to cause infection? (Presumably this would be exacerbated if someone was breathing hard from exercise)

Is there an expert lurking who can either validate my concern or reassure me robustly?

@TrustTheGeneGenie my point entirely

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Your post about it not being a risk seems to be being presented as fact. Is it a fact? If so, then perhaps a link stating this would help reduce the worries of the OP

MN really is a bit rubbish these days. OP has been straightforward and enquiring in all of her posts. Pp who have attempted to bully her with what amount to accusations of hysteria, health anxiety, or aggression have not been.

Sadly this is particularly true of the straw-man argument re. a terminal relative - whilst so very tragic for all concerned, the OP had no knowledge of this, was not discussing it, and it wasn’t relevant to her enquiry. She very definitely did not therefore “ suggestion that I and the rest of those who care about him should leave him to sit in shit and piss and die without comfort”, and claiming she did is awful. Grief is not a reason to berate strangers for imagined actions, on the internet or in real life.

OP i think it’s a very interesting question, and i suspect the answer is we won’t know for sometime as the research into the scope and movement of airborne covid is still ongoing, but it certainly doesn’t hurt to err on the side of caution in the meantime - fans/open doors as pp suggested, or switch your gym routine to early morning instead? Unless they’re really committed, they’re unlikely to be in there smoking at 7am.

TrustTheGeneGenie how do you know what the risks are? None of us can really be certain.

Thanks for the reasoned discussion from some posters.

Apologies to those who think I've made them keep returning to the thread to consider uncomfortable possibilities. You may wish to take a break from Mumsnet.

I made a suggestion, and then asked you a reasonable question - and you jumped right down my throat.

You don’t know their personal circumstances. The risk from a smell of smoke is likely to be very small (you don’t describe smoke hanging in the air, you describe a smell) and you are also likely to be equally a risk to them as you are exhaling heavily when exercising.

Why would you not just open the garage door? Get expandite foam?

You’re being very aggressive about this. It may be that you are suffering from mental health difficulties yourself as a result of this. It may be that you have heightened anxiety as being as concerned as you are isn’t usual. I would advise you to seek help from an appropriate professional such as your GP.

I'm goi v to ignore most of the inflammatory comments from previous posters, including the OP and try and offer some practical advice.
I own a dental practice and have spent the last nine months researching ventilation and trying to find the best ways to make my practice safe for patients and staff alike.
When we got fitted for our respirator masks we were told that it was a taste test, not a smell test, due to the nature of Covid viral particles. So, and to reiterate what some pp have already said, Covid viral particles are bigger and less likely to permeate through walls. When I wear my mask I can still smell some strong smells, but the filter works well to protect me from viruses.
The key is ventilation. Opening a door or window helps, although not so much if the air is stagnant. You need a through- draft, so a window plus a door works best.
We have installed a highly effective ventilation system, although that's not always possible in a small space. I don't think a fan alone would be much help as all that will do is circulate the existing air.

You could look for a portable air purifier. I know Costco were selling them for about £150?
What you want to achieve is around about ten air changes per hour, which is the PHE and some of the research claims around good ventilation.

There is also fancier equipment such as air scrubbers. Another thing you could try is a fogger machine that sprays antiviral material in the air and clears the room. This might settle and interfere with gym equipment though.

Personally I'd also look at sealing any holes, maybe look at a temporary way of creating a further barrier between the garages, another layer of protection if you will, such as a perplex or plastic screen against the adjoining wall. Perhaps I'd also go round to their neighbours to share my concern. I'd approach it as you are concerned your viral particles are as likely to travel over to them. You might get laughed out of their driveway, or perhaps they might help to suggest practical methods.

I hope that helps. The smell of smoke is unpleasant when you are near it regardless of whether it holds any viral particles or not, so I'd do my utmost to upgrade your garage as best you can

@RubaiyatOfAnyone That's a great analysis, thanks. I decided to leave that particular post largely unchallenged. That poster clearly has a hard enough time without me wading in.

You are probably right about getting out there at 7am. But it's so much easier for me to complain than get out there first thing 😆.

@MiraWard1

I’ve just found the following link:

www.healthline.com/health-news/can-secondhand-smoke-transmit-the-novel-coronavirus#How-the-smoke-travels

Thanks @almostvalentines that's the kind of knowledge I was hoping for when I posted.

We have got plans to seal the garage properly, but this is going to take a few months.

I think the best we can do is open both doors and possibly have the fan on as well.

I know dental work is know to produce a significant quantity of aerosols, hence the research and measures. I wonder if this will ever make it to other workplaces? We're hearing how just many people speaking, shouting or singing in an enclosed space produces aerosols that can build up to a level that can and does cause a risk of infection.

Thanks @ripples101

Interestingly, from that article I just linked to:

“ As for cigarette smoke, Horovitz told Healthline that if you can smell it, you’re probably too close.”

@MiraWard1
Agree with you. I'd be concerned. I assume the gatherings are at night. I'd open my garage doors and windows for an hour every morning to ventilate & a quick wipe of obvious surfaces.
There have been cases in NZ linked from quarantine hotels, where I think the air conditioning is suspected.

On the upside, the severity of illness is linked to initial viral load. One scientist described a small load as acting, almost like a vaccine. I find this reassuring as I go about my day.

I also agree that I'm finding MN very strange at the moment, but we are all tense, so perhaps it's that.

@ripples101

Interestingly, from that article I just linked to:

“ As for cigarette smoke, Horovitz told Healthline that if you can smell it, you’re probably too close.”

Yes, if I was out in an open space and I could smell it, it would be an alarm that I'm too close.

This is why when our garage, with a whole empty garage in between started to fill up with smoke, I was concerned about the air flow between what seems like two heavily used, poorly ventilated areas.

@SummerBody1 you're right, I think we're going to have to avoid the evening use for now. And I hadn't thought about wiping things down, but you've got a point there too.

I've thought about the low dose "like a vaccine" thing before and really hope that I have some immunity that way (I've had to isolate from close working with someone who tested positive that day, and regularly work in enclosed spaces with lots of people and no measures). But I can't know that. I'm doing everything I can to avoid this virus!

@MiraWard1

I think it’s a valid concern that you have. And I think some of the suggestions of trying to ventilate your garage as best you can is good advice. Even if it turns out that there isn’t any risk (no one here knows whether there is or isn’t), there is nothing wrong in taking the “better safe than sorry” approach.

In fact, given how unpleasant the smell of smoke is, and the dangers that it poses more generally, I’d be inclined to do as much as I can to ventilate/secure the garage space. I know you said that is something you’re planning on doing, but can’t be done for a while.

@SummerBody1 that's really interesting as I had wondered about that too. I understand that a high viral load means you are likely to be more ill, but wasn't sure about getting little bits of exposure. I have been shielding at various points during the last year and worried that meant I wouldn't get any exposure, so when I relaxed from shielding I would be at more risk. It completely makes sense.

Hopefully if you're on the shielding list @Lurkingforawhile you'll soon be on the vaccine list.

It reminds me of the trend for chicken pox parties. The problem is you don't know how ill you're going to get.

@ripples101 I've just spoken to DH about it and we have a plan to securely vent the garage (and wipe down the gear) hopefully without advertising it's contents to the neighbourhood (though it's pretty safe here, but the garage door isn't the most secure thing in the world).

@MiraWard1 I had my first pfizer jab last weekend, just so very grateful. Ironically the reason my lungs are so rubbish is because I caught whooping cough when someone bought their child to nursery whilst ill. I think they were thinking it was like chickenpox so good to spread it around