Office workers are more likely to be exposed to covid than all other types of employees combined

[LakeGeneva]

According to this BBC report.

There are more outbreaks of covid in offices than in all other workplaces combined during this lockdown. The office workers who are exposed in this way typically earn at or below living wage.

If you're a manager, how do you feel about exposing your poorly paid staff to this risk?
Have you been in the office yourself in order to see how you can mitigate it? Iff you're a low paid office worker, how do you feel about it?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55843506

I've been saying this for weeks. All the whining and mithering about going 5 miles to meet a friend for a walk or 30 miles to a preferred supermarket.

The issue is people catching it at work. And especially those catching it at work who could be working at home, if not 5 days a week, on a rota.

Exactly. The employees who are getting infected at work are obeying the rules and also obeying their employer's instructions.

I wonder how many of those employers give a thought to the people on minimum wage travelling by public transport to open their letters.

I have name changed for this.

I have no doubt of this. We were forced back to the office in a staggered manner from the beginning of July until everyone was in by September. It was ok apparently as the office was covid secure, that was basically a one way system, hand gel stations and a perspex screen. Whilst it was beneficial me being in at least some of the time, there was no real need for everyone to be in everyday and many staff could work from home. I partly wanted to be back as I live a fair distance away but those locally could pop in as needed.

We are not poorly paid (well I am but that is a different discussion) but pretty much not trusted to be at home.

I'm quite pragmatic about being in and I never felt really at risk, but being there was more important than full measures to protect staff.

And yes the office is modern with no opening windows.

It is criminal to force employees to work in offices when they can work from home. If a job can be done away from the office it should be. Even if that means a rota whereby everyone is in the office a different day a week or something but the rest of time time at home. The number of companies who are hellbent on having their staff crammed into small offices, still hot dealing just so the bosses can ‘survey their kingdom’ is crazy.

Hot desking*

This is not a surprise. There are more people who work in offices than in all other workplaces combined.

The UK workforce is around 33million, and it is estimated that just over 50% of them are office based. Millions more spend significant proportions of their week in offices. Some of these may work alone or in very small groups, and at the moment high numbers will be working from home and others will be furloughed, but I would guess that still leaves very high numbers working alongside colleagues or in public-facing roles.

During the current lockdown, there will have been very few outbreaks in hospitality, gyms, non-essential shops etc. as they are all closed.

As a manager I know that we have ensured that only truly essential office working is happening and we challenge people coming in all the time. I know we have made it that there is incredible amounts of space and often separate rooms for individuals. I know we have actively sought anyone who might need furlough support. I know we have provided facilities (IT and office) for those who need to work at home
The H&S manager often makes changes accordingly eg temperature checks now introduced. Yes I have been in to check
Not all employers are the same

@CovidSecureMyArse

I have name changed for this.

I have no doubt of this. We were forced back to the office in a staggered manner from the beginning of July until everyone was in by September. It was ok apparently as the office was covid secure, that was basically a one way system, hand gel stations and a perspex screen. Whilst it was beneficial me being in at least some of the time, there was no real need for everyone to be in everyday and many staff could work from home. I partly wanted to be back as I live a fair distance away but those locally could pop in as needed.

We are not poorly paid (well I am but that is a different discussion) but pretty much not trusted to be at home.

I'm quite pragmatic about being in and I never felt really at risk, but being there was more important than full measures to protect staff.

This was also my experience from July onwards. This time round for some reason the management agreed to full WFH after Xmas but I'm waiting for them to start making noises about us coming back in Feb.

Those of you who are in offices, are you informed of positive covid cases? I know that a lot of employers take the view that people should be 2m distant and so don't engage with track and trace, which is another issue.

Not all employers are the same

You in every day then?

I'd echo that not all employers are the same at all. ALL our office staff have been working from home since Feb. Occasionally if someone can't concentrate at home they are allowed to go in but a strict rota is in place and they would often be the only one there. I would also add that managers have dropped in probably more than other staff to pick up / sign docs / check the building etc. We have no plans to make people fo back full time ever. Working from home has mostly worked well. I know several lowly businesses (South East) operating like this.

Local not lowly

Great.

What do you think about the situation that people like @CovidSecureMyArse are in? Because I have to say it doesn't sit well with me.

I'm also remembering threads passim on Mumsnet where posters expressed fear about going back to the office and were told to get help with their anxiety.

There are more outbreaks of covid in offices than in all other workplaces combined during this lockdown

That really isn't what it says, it clearly specifies more than in supermarkets, construction sites, warehouses, restaurants and cafes combined

So in those workplaces only not ^all other* workplaces.

It's important to be clear, offices aren't more risky than hospitals, care homes, prisons, schools and every other workplace than those mentioned.

Restaurants and cafes would barely have been open so not many cases there anyway

I'm not minimising but it doesn't help anyone to scaremoneger

Ok.

I don't know how this reconciles with 'people in low paid professions manual labour' like security guards & carers, are the ones most likely to die.

It is disappointing BBC has turned to sensational journalism. From the article:

More than 60 suspected Covid outbreaks in offices were recorded in the first two weeks of the current lockdown in England, a BBC investigation has found.

60 outbreaks over 2 weeks (or 30 outbreaks a week) is not a high number considering how many offices have to operate all over the country.

As a point of comparison, over the past week in England, we had:

• 526 confirmed outbreaks in care homes;
• 85 outbreaks in educational settings (again, the number is not too high considering that how many schools and nurseries there are out there);
• 70 outbreaks in hospitals;
• 12 outbreaks in prisons.

In this context 30 outbreaks a week is not something I would view as a major driver of the COVID spread.

Delivering to offices ( and going inside) I see various different levels of covid secureness, the biggest issue looking in from the outside is the lack of mask wearing.
I'm expected to wear a mask but in some offices/ workplaces it is like an assumption that they are just one big bubble and covid secure so will be ok.

My employer has said that anyone who can work from home, should work from home. Most of use went home on 13/03/20 and haven’t been back since.
You are only allowed in the London office if you do not need to use public transport and all offices have a maximum number of staff allowed each day with booking required. They have been so pleased with how it has gone that they are leaving the current London office and moving to somewhere smaller and we will never be working in the office full time again.

Until people stop sending hard copy post (inclusion government departments) it is necessary for someone to open it.

Agree splodgetastic, it's council / HMRC postal communications that mean I have to pop in.

It's not surprising as ventilation is a key part of transmission. In winter people don't want to have the windows open so shut them this allows for particles to build in the air and increase likelihood of transmission.

Even sitting at a desk 2 m away from everyone with a mask on (unless ffp2) if spending several hours with numerous others it's going to build in the air.

There is reasons schools sat with windows wide open!

@LakeGeneva

Those of you who are in offices, are you informed of positive covid cases? I know that a lot of employers take the view that people should be 2m distant and so don't engage with track and trace, which is another issue.

Not me but dh.

They've been fortunate. They've had 3 positive cases (150+ staff) since lockdown 1 ended and they were allowed into the office in bigger numbers. They were individual cases in separate departments and separate floors and they caught it outside of work.

But they are fairly (very) strict - no more than 50% staff in at a time, social distancing, one way systems, no communal kitchen open, increased cleaning staff in, screens put up, masks in communal spaces and corridors, no clients allowed in unless for specific reasons with then 'critical worker' department.

They allow and even promote work from home wherever possible and have invested money into tech to allow this - this is a massive change for them, pre covid they were pretty anti wfh so I was surprised at this change of attitude. Staff are allowed in up to 50% but no more unless they really can't do their job from home.

I worry recently that they've become a little lax compared to before, but fingers crossed so far they've not had an issue.