AZ - EU contract published

[Davros]

Breaking news on BBC

@CrotchBurn not sure if boris is making a speech? Pp was taking joking about one earlier but haven't seem anything else, he has been quiet

@Wherrsmaclickypen electorates can demand more, citizens of EU cannot demand more of the EU.

Key word electorates - you can't do a clean sweep at the EU, ever.

Have you seen Macron's comments discrediting the AZ vaccine today? That sort of thing really hampers any end to the pandemic - can you not see how damaging and irresponsible that is?

@Wherrsmaclickypen

IcedPurple Export control sounds very desperate for sure.

I asked earlier, but dont think anyone has answered, the UK government stated it had secured 357 million vaccines by last November and is still buying more according to todays press (modena for one). Now this may be flim flam and these are merely options, or intentions at best, but I would be relieved to know that the UK have not pressured pharma into selling or reserving far more vaccines than the UK needs: I would like to be reassured of that before I felt anyone could be judgemental at any other actions in this sorry state of affairs.

Given the government's current defensive actions on litigation around PPE contract corruption and the gross wastage of taxpayers money involved I would be delighted but amazed if their pharma dealings were more considered, appropriate and moral.

I agree with the other poster who said that this is unfair, and I'm not a fan of this govt in the slightest. This is an emergency situation. Nobody knew which of the vaccines in development - if any - would prove viable. Therefore it did make perfect sense for the British govt to take a calculated risk and hedge their bets. That strategy has paid off, unlike the excessive EU caution and tardiness.

In any case, this isn't about Britain. It's about the EU's failure and attempts to cover up that failure. What Britain may or may not have done is irrelevant.

@Wherrsmaclickypen

This thread makes for depressing reading. I suspect no one is going to come out of this very well when the jingoistic tabloid media are covering it, and its not going to be the last hideous squabble over vaccine resources.

It will be nationalism at its worst across the world. Developed countries should be acting as one to inoculate those most of risk and ensure massive development and overproduction to ensure this covers rapid distribution to developing nations.

This virus didnt recognise borders or nationalities, its target is human and our response has to be......humanitarian.

Unfortunately, despite a lot of denial, human beings are tribal creatures. When things are going well it’s all friendly trading between tribes, when things get difficult we hunker down, protect our village, protect our resources to ensure our tribe survives and gets to carry on the tribe for future generations.

@Mingmoo my dad is also in Europe & vulnerable. Vaccine immunity depends on high uptake of a population though. The vaccine won't stop all deaths unfortunately.

@Mingmoo isn't the supply issue likely to be short term though and also hope of other vaccines , people like is in out forties are not likely to see vaccine for a few months in the uk, by that time it could all be very different

I totally agree with what you are saying, but surely if it was only 4m the most neighbourly thing to say to the EU is that once they have approved the vaccine, we will allow AZ to send back the same amount that was sent here?

Contractually we may not 'have' to, but given that we are so far ahead and have had approved another vaccine today, i think it would be the magnanimous thing to do.

@Mingmoo

My dad is in his 90s and lives on his own, in an EU country where they are waiting patiently for the vaccines. He has two serious medical conditions and he is very high risk but without vaccination he has very little company and he's terribly lonely. Also it's risky for me to see him and care for him. I'd like to think that IF the UK gets to a stage where they are vaccinating people like me, who are healthy and mid-40s with no underlying conditions, AZ might divert more of their production to EU countries who signed up later. It doesn't feel ethical to say 'first come, first served' in the circumstances.

If your dad is 90 why isn’t he being vaccinated as high priority. I ask this as an Spanish where those who live in care homes have been vaccinated and they were starting to vaccinate those that are elderly but don’t live in care homes.

Haven't most richer countries secured potentially more vaccine that they effectively need, like with the uk 300 million or whatever people are saying aren't all going to appear this year and most are 2 doses

Contractually we may not 'have' to, but given that we are so far ahead and have had approved another vaccine today, i think it would be the magnanimous thing to do.

I don't disagree however the way the EU have framed it has been pretty divisive.

@Mingmoo
What country is he in? Surely all 90 year olds in Europe are getting it now

@rossclare I agree but no one seems to know for sure how many it was , conflicting reports

Yes but the UK government ordered those 357 million doses before even one of them passed the tests. If all had failed at some point those orders would have been worth Jack shit. As it is thank god we have a variety of vaccines available to use at some point. If we don't need them (which all depends on new variants etc.) I'm sure the UK government will not just pour them down the loo.

You are quite right Backbee I am asking how many vaccines the UK government has already secured. The population of the UK is 66million, so 357 million (government press release) seems quite a lot already. Its quite a material point, and I have not found any up to date confirmation.

Double doses, waste, adds up. But I think I read somewhere that the plan is donate excess to lower income countries. Can't remember where I read it though. If I find the link, I'll post it.

He's in Ireland, so it's supposed to be coming but who knows.

@CrotchBurn

Coronapizza was a "comedy" sketch on French TV, might have been state TV at that. Basically taking the piss out of Italy as Plague Nation of Europe. It was right back in the beginning when it was just us. Might not sound like much, perhaps you had to be there, but it really cut through. I daren't mention it to anybody. I thought over time it might fade, but it evidently still really burns based on the tirades of ire that come out if it crops up in conversation. Think that was either just before or just after our masks got swiped. It certainly help firmly place the concept of EU solidarity in the "hollow laugh" tent.

I do think the pandemic may have stress tested the EU so hard that too much damage has been sustained to allow for repair. I hope rather than a sudden collapse, especially one where Italy is in France & Germany's crosshairs, it turns out to be more a reduction of the project's loftier goals. Maybe slowly, carefully rolling back more towards a united trade and MOP focused thing.

But based on the flailing right now, I don't know if that is coming from cool heads with a nicely scripted pantomime, or hotter heads with a strong whiff of panic stations under their noses.

If the latter I'm not sure I'm optimistic about any gentle, careful outcomes.

I don't miss home as such, miss my family, but I've spent the bulk of my adult life here. My husband and son are Italians. I wanted to reach through the screen and read Emma Thompson the riot act when she took her shiny new Italian citizenship one day and then abandoned us the next as the virus hit. And I seem to talk about "us" far more than I say "them" these days. I'll die here and I'm OK with that (just not soon if at all possible),

But I do fear for Italy (and Spain, Greece, Portugal & Ireland) when seeing the EU lose/pretend to lose its shit.

@rossclare

I totally agree with what you are saying, but surely if it was only 4m the most neighbourly thing to say to the EU is that once they have approved the vaccine, we will allow AZ to send back the same amount that was sent here?

Contractually we may not 'have' to, but given that we are so far ahead and have had approved another vaccine today, i think it would be the magnanimous thing to do.

I think they’re blaming for the whole shortage of az. So not 4m but 70m that are missing

@rossclare what vaccine did we approve today? Also remember we are spacing out beyond recommendations to get more vaccinated so appears we have done more as such , a gamble we hope pays off. My nan had first dose 1/2 weeks ago but second not until april I think

Why doesn't the EU ask Germany to offer up what they secured for themselves?

That would be magnanimous as Germany is in the EU & broke the rules doing that.

He's in Ireland, so it's supposed to be coming but who knows.

I have Irish family, it is coming.

@rossclare - yes that's kind of what you'd expect - something done in private and calmly and some negotiation/offer of reimbursement or some sort or other or help etc.

But, no, the EU are playing public politics for their home audience. This isn't about what it appears to be about at all.

They are firing warning shots, but have shot themselves in the foot for future investment from companies looking at UK or EU?

Who would trust EU now they've shown they will re-write history and retrospectively change contracts when it suits them - plus, no accountability, just a finger pointing along a line of "don't blame me".

Plus if we did have "spare" Ireland would surely be the obvious candidate because of the border.

But, no, the EU are playing public politics for their home audience

And you think the UK arent?

Interesting tweet from Sam Coates re EU triggering article 16 of NI protocol

www.politico.eu/article/eu-imposes-export-controls-on-rich-nations-from-saturday/

I do find it amusing though , so many people think bojo is useless yet this useless man has been smart and shown up the EU, imagine being Merkel or Macron and being out smartest by bojo, can be good for their egos as we are now seeing