Lockdown is where middle-class people hide and working-class people bring them stuff

[havanacabana]

I’ve seen this quote on twitter a few times and realised there is actually a lot of truth to it. IRL most of the people I know who are truly able to ‘hide away’ are the middle-class, privileged ones who are currently on furlough or working from home. People I know on minimum wage are the ones having to go out and mix at work in supermarkets, takeaways, warehouses etc. to keep everything going.

@Bluesheep8

Doctors are frontline and they are not working class

What, none of them?

No. By virtue of their profession, whether they were originally WC or not, they are MC.

I get that there are many inequalities in society which I hate and have often spoken about on here, under this username and previous ones.

But I don't like this attitude. I'm not middle class, I'm working class (hate our ridiculous class system anyway). I went to a decent state school, my parents had decent jobs but weren't rich and were from very working class families. None of us went to university.

I have a good job, not high paying but it's not bad at all and I'm lucky (although looking a little precarious thanks to the government- another thread). I'm able to work from home but it's not my choice, I hate it. I want to be back in the office. I don't want others to be at risk on my behalf. Working from home and lockdowns are damaging my mental health so much that I'd happily take the risk myself tomorrow but I'm not allowed to.

Most people aren't sat at home rubbing their hands with glee that others are forced to be at risk whilst they aren't.

All the supermarket workers round here are recent retirees from professional jobs, MC mums filling in with part time jobs, or students doing evening shifts. Hardly working class.

Sure, as if doctors were not dying...

Threads like his make me actually despair at peoples’ understanding of the concept of class and of statistics. It is patently obviously that GENERALLY (not exclusively) people who work in white collar professions are more likely than those in blue collar jobs to be able to WFH and therefore minimise their exposure. That is before you add in the likelihood of being financially secure enough (a by-product of being MC) to order from Ocado rather than queue at Aldi, order household supplies in bulk from Amazon or similar rather than shop at Home Bargains, run a car or two in which to undertake essential journeys in rather than relying on public transport, possibly have a SAHP to cover childcare/homeschooling responsibilities rather than having to send children to school/nursery - all of which have an impact on potential exposure and therefore chances of contracting COVID.

Just because Drs are middle class and are working extremely hard in hospitals does not negate the entire trend. The ONS has published statistics on this exact point which clearly shows
a causative effect between occupation (the key marker of class) and likelihood of infection/death.

My guess is that the lower paid HCA/hospital cleaners etc are contracting COVID in far greater numbers than consultants and hospital execs because they are at the coal face in a different way. The medical profession is probably the best example of this, but I’d imagine that the position is replicated in other professions too: TAs in schools v the SMT, bus drivers v executive decision makers; frontline social workers v LA bosses.

On the flip side of the coin of course there are working class people on furlough in hospitality, beauty and retail industries - it is great that they are being protected but that doesn’t alter the fact that huge swathes of the working class population are key workers who cannot WFH and are therefore increasing their risk of exposure. They are also less likely to be able to afford to choose not work to protect themselves and their families. That doesn’t mean than ALL the MC people are sat at home in their ivory towers whilst ALL the WC go about as normal, but to say that there is no trend or no increased risk is, frankly, nonsensical.

Resentment is bad for your health

Enough of this crap propaganda on MN

It's getting boring now

*No. By virtue of their profession, whether they were originally WC or not, they are MC.

It's not as simple as that to change class.

It's so subtle. Yes profession is a big part, but it's also about whether you ski, where you 'summer', what you call your main living area, what you call your evening meal, what you call your parents, which school you went to, your accent, your knowledge of social etiquette, your appreciation of the arts...

I could type more but I think I've made my point

@noisenoisenoisenoise

It's not as simple as that to change class

Every single thing you've mentioned you can easily change and learn, can't you?

Yes, overall this is a good summing up.

I think sadly this is all too true TBH .Who can possibly forget those pictures in the last Lockdown of people in the Building trade packed like sardines with not only no SD but literally squashed together! The poor lady in SB told me she is so frightened of catching it ,she just goes to and from work (Tier 4 at the time) and nowhere else .Half the staff are ill but it never seems to make the papers unless it is Doctors/Nurses or Teachers!(Obv not good for them to be ill either!) The car park is being renovated there and yep the builders are still in even in LD.In contrast DH and DS both working from home!(Thankfully)

@noisenoisenoisenoise

*No. By virtue of their profession, whether they were originally WC or not, they are MC.

It's not as simple as that to change class.

It's so subtle. Yes profession is a big part, but it's also about whether you ski, where you 'summer', what you call your main living area, what you call your evening meal, what you call your parents, which school you went to, your accent, your knowledge of social etiquette, your appreciation of the arts...

I could type more but I think I've made my point

No. You haven't.

A doctor is middle class.

[quote trulydelicious]@noisenoisenoisenoise

It's not as simple as that to change class

Every single thing you've mentioned you can easily change and learn, can't you?[/quote]
Yes I suppose over generations. But I'm never going to be classed as middle class to my middle class friends (nor working class to my working class friends for that matter) despite living a very middle class life.

My son however probably will be seen as a through and through middle class person because of how he will be brought up.

*A doctor is middle class.

It's just not as simple as that. And you know it!

It's so subtle. Yes profession is a big part, but it's also about whether you ski, where you 'summer', what you call your main living area, what you call your evening meal, what you call your parents, which school you went to, your accent, your knowledge of social etiquette, your appreciation of the arts

Neither Marx nor Weber’s definitions take much of that into account.

It would help if we stared differentiating between tangible definitions/markers of class (which are predominately profession based) and the various intangible markers that the middle classes/MNers like to champion so they can put people in their own defined boxes.

The latter isn’t particularly helpful to this discussion for example.

*Neither Marx nor Weber’s definitions take much of that into account.

Yet, we all feel it. Daily.

Under any actual official class classification system, yes a doctor is middle class.

Whether or not they listen to radio 4.

Yet, we all feel it. Daily.

Some ‘feel’ it a LOT more than others. They’re very over represented on here.

Most of the shouty STAY HOME memes posted on fb last March by people I know, were people who had very little to lose by staying home
-SAHM with well paid DH who could WFH
-people who WFH anyway

• people in public sector jobs (most of which could be done at home)

And lots of MN who talk about bunking down for winter doing their 6 figure salary job at home with the 3 months supply of food that they've prepped. (Never once realising that being able to stay at home and buy and store a vast amount of food, is a luxury a lot of people dont have - not least the people supplying their food) It does make sense for people to wfh, and of course by not using shops, public transport etc they are making it slightly less risky for those who have no choice. But often there is a slight superiority about it "I'm doing my bit by wfh" or competitive "I havent left the house since 2019" without acknowledging the privilege that they've been able to do that.

I think this is broadly true. I move in vair middle class circles (despite being a low paid out the home keyworker myself) and pretty much everyone I know is working from home and buying shit loads of stuff on Amazon!

It’s been noted several times throughout the pandemic that deprived areas suffer worse infection rates due to still having to go out for work. Only on mumsnet would people argue with this and have a problem! It’s plain facts.
Yes there are doctors going out there, and nobody is saying there aren’t, it’s just that this pandemic is disproportionately affecting the poor and working class.
In a hospital there are many more cleaners, healthcare assistants, receptionists etc than doctors.

Maybe it would be better to talk about occupations, not class. Higher earners are more likely to be at home, but class is a bit complicated, emotive and not really the point, when we really mean money. Also not always true. My plumber usually goes skiing in Switzerland (utterly loaded), he has been working throughout.

I think sadly this is all too true TBH .Who can possibly forget those pictures in the last Lockdown of people in the Building trade packed like sardines with not only no SD but literally squashed together!

I remember the outrage at the pic of the packed tube and people being appalled and calling them "selfish", and it made me really annoyed. The pic was taken at about 7am on a tube, with mostly young male workers on it. It wasnt families going for a day out, or couples hoping to get to an art gallery, or pensioners meeting their friends for bingo. Who the fuck would force themselves onto a packed tube, in a pandemic, at 7am, for fun...(not that any of the above would have been available) Literally no one would do that unless they had to. Construction was "allowed" and presumably these people would not be paid if they didnt turn up.

In my experience it's half and half for what I'd consider 'working class' and 'middle class'.

Service/hospitality industry bods aside from delivery are by and large furloughed. Trades are still working if not as usual, then lots as usual.

Middle manaegement is partly furloughed, partly working from home, partly made redundant (last year mostly).

@TheKeatingFive

But we had deliveries before the pandemic and people were doing these jobs

My question is how much of the delivery culture (and indeed food/goods production) during lockdown was strictly necessary?

Of course basic groceries for the shielded is, but I’m talking about the majestic wine deliveries, deliveroos, craft/gadgets/toys from amazon, naice Ocado bits, etc, etc.

If these had been stripped back to the bare minimum (to safeguard as many people as possible working in these roles) would we have had as much support for lockdown as we do?

Yes this is something I thought during the first lockdown. Lots of people talking about filling time by ordering scented candles and cushions, wine and treats and stuff. Often the same people who were quick to make the point they’d stuck to every rule and would be very critical of those they perceived as bending the rules. I did wonder if they scaled back deliveries to just essentials and furloughed more workers whether they would be so supportive of this in the same way they were so vocal about everyone staying at home.

Interesting discussion/responses to this thread. I agree with the statistics but also agree it’s a bit of a sweeping statement and maybe not the best way to word it..

*No. By virtue of their profession, whether they were originally WC or not, they are MC.

It's not as simple as that to change class.

It's so subtle. Yes profession is a big part, but it's also about whether you ski, where you 'summer', what you call your main living area, what you call your evening meal, what you call your parents, which school you went to, your accent, your knowledge of social etiquette, your appreciation of the arts...*

Agreed