Lockdown is where middle-class people hide and working-class people bring them stuff

[havanacabana]

I’ve seen this quote on twitter a few times and realised there is actually a lot of truth to it. IRL most of the people I know who are truly able to ‘hide away’ are the middle-class, privileged ones who are currently on furlough or working from home. People I know on minimum wage are the ones having to go out and mix at work in supermarkets, takeaways, warehouses etc. to keep everything going.

Ok my dh is working class because he cannot wfh with his job.

Several of my family have become delivery drivers because their former jobs (Tefl teacher, actor, catering manager) arent there any more. Have they changed class then?

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@RosesAndLemonade,

So, with so many wealthy women and so many poor men, are you unappreciative of analysis of the gender pay gap?[/quote]
Sorry I have absolutely no idea what you're asking me?

I earn 1/4 of what my husband does. No. I'm quite clearly aware of the pay gap.

What has this got to do with middle classes supposedly not working outside of the home during a lockdown?

Has anyone posted this yet? (Read, then went away). ONS analysis of death rates by occupation.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregisteredbetween9marchand28december2020

This is such a daft thread (sorry). Another binary grouping sent to divide people.

Ace 🙄

There is some truth in the statement, though I think it a lot of working class people are furloughed and a lot of middle class wfh. But excluding nhs, police , teaching erc, a llot of the 'manual' construction, transport, cleaning, caring jobs are still seen as working class jobs and many of them are still out with the public.

I think wealth has a lot to do with shopping habits in the pandemic- many can't afford to do the minimum shop for online delivery or pay a premium for fresh veg/ meat etc to be delivered to their door, so they are venturing out into busy supermarkets instead. Some maybe even the local shop to avoid using taxis and public transport.

Ah - see the reluctant phoenix had already posted it - sorry!

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@OhDear2200,

I am racking my brains as to why an accountant or solicitor (other than maybe criminal) would have to go to work?[/quote]
I can tell you oyr accountant is working away from home and it is for thr same reason that certain banking staff are too. And very likely the reason for solicitors.

Accountants hold on their systems very confidential information, they hold our bank details, along with our address and all personal information that could lead to identity fraud and theft. That information needs to be held securely. A breach of security is obviously very serious.

Our accountant rotates staff in their office for this reason. The partners have been in full time.

@MillieEpple,

Clearly the language is emotive, and possibly unhelpful, but, equally, it has sparked a useful discussion, especially given how statistical language leaves so many cold.

‘Top quintile of society 4x more likely to be working from home than bottom quintile’ (for example) just does not have the same ring to it.

And, as someone who has gone to work for a part of this, but am now WFH and having things delivered, it does feel a bit like ‘hiding at home’.

I do agree though, that if you don’t need to go out to work, the best thing is to WFH. The fewer contacts, in total, the better.

Not true in our case. We are on a v low wage (FSM) and we just decided to not go to work as self employed so we’ve stayed in.
We are going without but yes we do get food deliveries although I would see those people as equal to us not a different class at all

A massive generalisation and others pointed out not true for everyone.
In my extended family for example we have a doctor, nurse, pharmacist and military personal all working outside the home and all middle class.
Working from home we have a call centre worker.
On furlough we have a store manager.

I think the main problem with the statement is that the traditional definition of class and what is a working class role is outdated. It is too complex to generalise that way now.

The language suggests that being able to "hide away" at home is the privileged position. Yes, it's privileged from the point of view of being safer, but it's also thoroughly miserable being on your own for months and I would be quite happy to go back to my workplace and get my own "stuff" and feel jealous of people who can do this! I've got to the point where the highlight of my week is saying "thank you" to the supermarket staff as it's the only time I speak to anyone outside of my household in person.

So are we now saying that any office based job is middle class? I remembered a thread on here not so long ago stating admin was largely unskilled work no different from your average retail job so those who work in admin shouldn't expect more than minimum wage, even up to PA level.

Certainly a lot of school administrators, entry level NHS administrators are very poorly paid.

@Marchitectmummy,

That is just nonsense.

If a company cannot set up a secure link to a home computer, that is just poor management.

How on earth do you think teachers work from home? Do you think schools don’t hold highly confidential pieces of information about children, which could even compromise their physical security?

You can now transfer almost unlimited funds electronically from home. I bought my house that way. There are totally secure systems accessible from a home computer.

I know someone who works for a central bank, seeing privileged price sensitive information. He was given a lap top (with many layers of security) and works from home.

You probably do need some IT professionals in to maintain the central system, but that is it.

I am racking my brains as to why an accountant or solicitor (other than maybe criminal) would have to go to work

Most don't, they can easily work from home, but their micromanaging employers say different. In most cases you can easily do the job from home, and talk to clients on the phone. Even if you have to go to meetings you don't have to be in an office 8 hours a day.

And yes of course I can only WFH because other people empty the bins, deliver letters and parcels and work in distribution depots to get food to my local supermarket. I don't agree with the pp who said that the middle classes are "self-aware", I find aspirational people anything but.

@RedskyBynight

The language suggests that being able to "hide away" at home is the privileged position. Yes, it's privileged from the point of view of being safer, but it's also thoroughly miserable being on your own for months and I would be quite happy to go back to my workplace and get my own "stuff" and feel jealous of people who can do this! I've got to the point where the highlight of my week is saying "thank you" to the supermarket staff as it's the only time I speak to anyone outside of my household in person.

My DH is bloody miserable having been at home for the best part of a year. And also is it safer? I do a very risky job involving personal care, behaviour management and constant physical contact with my students in my SEN class, so it's not like the fact my husband is at home makes him safer, or my kids, as I'm still going into work and potentially bringing stuff home

Since when does your profession or degree make you middle class ? My dh has a profession but we still live in a council house , so how can we be considered middle class.

There are certain industries that have a higher level of exposure. Some of these are typically working class - manufacturing, retail. Some would fall across both working class and middle class - healthcare for example. Some are middle class - teaching.

However, there are other factors which determine how likely someone is to die with the virus, some of which are also linked with poorer backgrounds or those typically working class. Race plays a part in how badly people are affected by the virus but race is also a factor in being poorer. Underlying health conditions are a factor in how badly people are affected by the virus with poorer overall health seen mainly in working class areas. Inter-generational housing is another risk factor, which again is likely to be seen in poorer areas. Living in denser areas with other people who are likely to have high exposure, again another indicator of working class.

There is more risk to those from working class backgrounds but to simply state that risk has come from their job alone simply glosses over many other troubling factors differentiating the working class from the middle class. That statement is far too simplistic and will just great division, rather than identifying the areas that we need to do better in as a society to improve the lives overall for those in working class backgrounds.

I do have an NHS consultant doctor sibling who works pretty hard out of the house and 2 doors up is another one (and that one's wife is a nurse). Also plenty of lawyers who go to court and even those who do not have been forced into offices and courts.

However I agree that in the main this may be so and I have worked from home since 1994 when I set up my own firm as a lawyer.

Nope. Assuming I am regarded as middle class, (graduate homeowner), then lockdown is where I get made redundant and literally haven't bought anything except food, cleaning products and tooth brush heads since March.

I've only been to Tesco or out running/cycling in that time - no parties, eat out etc

Trying to divide on the basis of who is at home is pretty simplistic.

There's some truth but refers to the service sector, those who are in manufacturing, even senior management do go to work, there's nothing remotely working class about my household and we do go into the office, just not everyday. We are both keyworkers but very different sectors (and I've been told I can get the vaccine under social care category!)

But we had deliveries before the pandemic and people were doing these jobs

My question is how much of the delivery culture (and indeed food/goods production) during lockdown was strictly necessary?

Of course basic groceries for the shielded is, but I’m talking about the majestic wine deliveries, deliveroos, craft/gadgets/toys from amazon, naice Ocado bits, etc, etc.

If these had been stripped back to the bare minimum (to safeguard as many people as possible working in these roles) would we have had as much support for lockdown as we do?

It’s true to an extent, but if the West had more competent governments such as many countries in Asia nobody would need to be hiding.

Why did the West fail so badly on every single front? Seem a bit like the elephant in the room to me.

Yes it’s true.

Middle class people in white collar job shocker!!

You could also argue that the middle classes will be disproportionately footing the tax bill after this shit is over too though!

@SleepingStandingUp

Yes, all those working class doctors...

Exactly this