Do you think police where right to fine for this?

[TheFakePlantIsTheOnlyOneILike]

Family Member (FM) just called me about this and I couldn’t be sympathetic and wondering if I was in the wrong to not be.

FM was fined £200 by police for travelling out of area to go shopping. She travelled about 30 miles. FM lives in the same town as me, in our town we have a b+m with a small food department, an Aldi which is basically opposite b+m, a Morrisons (it’s not one of the small local ones, but it’s not a massive store either) plus an array of local butchers, greengrocers, and a shop that sells herbs and spices, all open for business (I know as I use them). I have never struggled to get anything foodwise.

FM is going to appeal against the fine for the following reasons, they say they’re only meant to go to one shop and:

• They can’t get everything they want in b+m
• Morrisons is too expensive
• They don’t like Aldi
• She’d have to go to more than 1 shop if she went to a butchers or the greengrocers (ignoring the fact that one of the butchers has teamed up with a greengrocer and they’re selling each others produce in boxes for purchase so you only have to go to one place)

So I know this isn’t AIBU but AIBU to think the police were right to fine her as she could easily get everything she needed in town?

What are everyones thoughts?

Love how some posters cannot comprehend there not being a supermarket in 30 miles. It wouldn't be that common u guess, but not impossible. And some people do have very strong attachments to one supermarket or another. They arent really interchangeable for all sorts of reasons. Realistically, chances of accident, breakdown etc are pretty small.. We are a year into this now and need to refocus on some sort of normal, not making people feel like murderers for perfectly reasonable, legal activities.

Out of interest where did they stop her? Was it a roadside check? I sometimes drive to a big supermarket about 6 miles away because it opens really early, is empty at that time and it gives my car a run. But there are 3 or 4 that are closer ......

I think the police are ridiculous trying to fine people for this sort of thing. I hope she appeals it and they end up with egg on their faces. If she is in England she has broken no laws anyway.

I wouldn't be judgemental to someone for this.

How is click and collect for non essential items meant to work then?

DH works in a jewellers. People are purchasing and using click and collect. It's all pretty niche so people must be travelling miles.

I'm not saying that this should be happening- but by allowing click and collect it does feel like people have permission to travel like this?

@Angel2702

Where was she shopping though to have to travel 30 miles? Does she do that every week?

It’s unreasonable for them to say you have to use your nearest supermarket but I can’t believe there was nothing else closer than 30 miles. I would have two drive past multiple Asda, Tesco, Sainsbury’s etc to travel 30 miles.

I am assuming you don't live rurally then. I have to drive at least 28 miles to my nearest big Tesco, Sainsbury or Asda.

She should also appeal on the simple grounds that she hasn't done anything illegal. No point messing around trying to justify her decisions - you can decide to do whatever you want within the law and whether other people in society negatively judge you or not, it's not a matter for the police.

Seems mean to me and OTT

I don’t think it’s really in the spirit of the lockdown but one round journey for one shop is probably a lower risk than multiple shops nearer to home.

I’m lucky I can reliably get home deliveries, so not having to worry about this sort of thing.

@Beaniecats

Welcome to our police state

I was going to say Welcome to Mumsnet OP

Bloody hell. The amount of serious food allergies and coeliac disease Dd has we can’t shop in Aldi or a mid size morrisons. We’d need a big supermarket ideally Tesco or sainsburys with enough choice to get food which she can eat.

Bloody ridiculous.

As far as law is concerned she isn't breaking it.

But a reason of cost is a daft one. A 60 mile round trip to go Tesco (which ime isn't any more expensive than Morrison's?) because it's cheaper? The petrol alone would add the difference!

She's also wrong about the one shop thing.

So it more a moral question. Should we be travelling that distance because we prefer the shop or not? And I'm not sure I know the answer but I certainly wouldn't do it during lockdown.

I'm not in the UK, but in Italy in March - April lockdown, we needed to use the local supermarket. Getting food is essential, but getting food from a store a long drive away, when numerous others are closer, is not essential.

I'd say the police were right to fine her. I hear 'use common sense' a lot about lockdown. It is common sense that using the local shops is the point of lockdown and staying at or near home.

That said, I don't know what guidance has been given in the UK or how clear it has been.

So it more a moral question

But the police can't fine people for immoral behaviour unless it's also against the law.

I'd say the police were right to fine her. I hear 'use common sense' a lot about lockdown

The police also can't fine people for lack of common sense.

Was she actually only going food shopping or was she “going good shopping” as an excuse to do something that isn’t allowed while she was there?

Yes, local options are available and travelling to other area for a non essential trip should be stopped.

Did she technically break the law? No ...

Is she stupid for travelling 60 miles (round trip) in the middle of a pandemic to get shopping because she doesn't like the local options? Yes...

I mean, when you factor in petrol she wouldn't even be saving money....

Thankfully for her, the police can't fine you for a lack of common sense or intelligence. I expect it will be thrown out on appeal.

@FreezeFloodlit

So it more a moral question

But the police can't fine people for immoral behaviour unless it's also against the law.

I'd say the police were right to fine her. I hear 'use common sense' a lot about lockdown

The police also can't fine people for lack of common sense.

I agree they can't find for moral reasons. That's why I said she hadn't broken the law!

And I'm not even sure morally it's wrong - just morally I wouldn't in lockdown.

But they may say more by mindset than anyone else's?

This new lockdown had confused me.

I don’t love rurally no but given the description of the other local supermarkets it would be reasonable to assume it wasn’t the middle of nowhere and there would be others. If nearest Tesco really is that far and in rural locations then I would expect police to take that into account. Someone living rurally travelling 30 miles is different than someone like me driving 30 miles when you can’t drive more than 3 miles without a supermarket. My nearest town has Lidl, Asda, next to a big sainsburys, a Tesco and Morrison. So I would have no excuse.

Plenty of reasons you would need a specific supermarket so if that’s nearest branch it’s reasonable.

It seems a bit bonkers to me that she drove that far given the number of other choices (or even delivery service from tescos).

I think it can be challenged but its definitely not cheaper to do a 60 mile round trip then a few items in a different supermarket!

Its a 50 mile round trip for us to go to the supermarket...... I get online deliveries instead!

The aim is to cut down the risk of transmission. She's done that by shopping in one shop and travelling in her own car.

I have to get public transport to provide childcare. Our buses are filling up again with the over 70's who've had the jab. The same people are on the buses and in the shops, everyday (two of my DD's work in essential retail). Mask wearing isn't compulsory and isn't being enforced. So no, she shouldn't be fined for carry out a legal act and cutting down on transmission.

While our borders are open, I won't condemn people who are shopping in their favourite shops.

Our rules don't make sense.

@Scottishskifun, delivery slots are rare in some areas and if they don't have what you want, you still have to shop.

People shopping aren't the issue, or supermarket staff would be dropping like flies.

If we were in lockdown 1 id say probably she could suck it up and put up with the less ideal shop for few weeks but not now. I didn't see my partner in lockdown 1 but I do now.. A year in its different

Good that the road was empty.

She shouldn't have asked if she didn't want honest opinion from OP.

60 miles roundtrip is about 1.5 hours in my area, and cost to drive (wear n tear & fuel) maybe £15 (£6 fuel, £9 wear n tear). So false economy one suspects.

@FreezeFloodlit

The police also can't fine people for lack of common sense.

In Italy, that's why the fines for this kind of nonsense were introduced. Because too many people lacked the common sense to just use their local shops and avoid unnecessary travel.

Obviously I have no idea if UK police have the same powers to issue fines. They seem to think that they do.

The legislation does not have anything about travelling in it.

For that reason, the Police cannot issue a fine for it, because there is no law against it.