Anyone on here really think ‘the government did all it could’?

[BlackDogBlues]

Re covid and it’s response.

Even my dyed in the wool Tory voting Dad thinks it’s a shit show

This basically, he was ok at the start. Marking the government 8/9 out of 10 on this survey thing he signed up to

Mistake after mistake and he is now marking them 2 out of 10

And he loves johnson and thinks rees mogg is a stand up guy who has just been misunderstood!

Whilst I have sympathy for him the answer is no!

He didn’t take it seriously at the beginning. I pulled my girls out of school 2 weeks before national lockdown because a plain Jane (me) with no further education compared to the PM could see what was going to happen here.

If I was in charge we would be New Zealand right now. I would have shut all the borders, every single person on a 2 week lockdown, including factories, everything with only medicine being produced and other things a hospital might need. The borders would have been closed before you could sing the alphabet and from there on in the country would need to keep its self running with the borders ahut absolute. Anyone returning home would be quarantined in a hotel for 2 weeks.

A women would have done so much better in this situation, I’m aware that’s sexist. But the women PMs of the world have handled this so much better as they took it seriously!! From the start!

The government didn't just allow mixing though, at points it actively encouraged it (eat out to help out?). Christmas mixing was against scientific advice if I remeber rightly, and the sensible route would have been to allow support bubbles only. The trouble is they are tying to please everyone, so we've ended up with ineffective half arsed measures that then need lockdowns. 100,000+ deaths is an inevitable outcome.

I keep seeing people claiming that 20000 deaths had been called the worst case scenario. As I recall, in fact that was a figure that would have been a "good" outcome, ie we would have got off lightly at 20000. That was the minimum expected, not the maximum.

news.sky.com/video/coronavirus-20-000-uk-deaths-would-be-good-outcome-11959254

Yep. Lots of reframing, rewriting and demands to become Antipodean!!!

The 20,000 deaths thing that Vallance said back at the beginning was their idea of a 'good outcome' - 20,000 was never cited as a worst case scenario. Ferguson's modelled worst case scenario with no interventions was 500,000 (but that's one model based on zero preventative measures, not a prediction of what was likely - there is so much unfair Ferguson bashing around the data).

The government did nowhere near all it could. I astonished that anyone could think that. And I still have never seen the government encourage employers to facilitate people working from home - the emphasis has always been on the worker, "work from home if you can". The workers are not the ones with the power to make these decisions.

No.

From this morning's Guardian:

The World Health Organization’s European director, Hans Kluge, said on Thursday Covid-19 transmission rates in Europe remained too high, putting health services under severe strain, and therefore it was “too early to ease up”.
“We need to be patient, it will take time to vaccinate,” he told an online briefing. “We have learned harsh lessons - opening and closing, and reopening (societies) rapidly is a poor strategy” in seeking to curb coronavirus contagion, he said.

@CaptainMyCaptain

In March last year I thought they were doing as well as anyone could do given the unprecedented circumstances. Then ... Cummings happened and they gave all their inept mates lucrative jobs. that's when I gave up all hope in them. Other countries have their problems too because nobody really knew all the answers but I can't forgive those things.

Agree totally.

I also think Since Cain and Cummings have left Boris has changed somewhat. He's changing his persona to more sincere and is taking it more seriously.

But I can't forgive millions being given for world beating failures and the complete fuck up that was the Cummings debacle.

I think it was an impossible task for any government to do a good job, because no matter what choices they made there would be some people who would suffer, whether this be people impacted directly by the virus, impacted by the healthcare system being overwhelmed or impacted by the restrictions that are imposed. The government started off by trying to minimise impact from restrictions, which in my view was the right decision because I think ultimately we will realise there will be far more pain and suffering coming from lockdown than directly from the virus (and that’s not to minimise the pain caused by the virus at all). However, in order for this strategy to work the government needed to win the hearts and minds of the population and they completely failed to do this.

I think one early mistake was to announce daily death figures with no context, and in such a dramatic fashion. It was almost designed for scary headlines to bounce us into draconian and damaging lockdowns. Also, the decision to count anyone who died within 28 days of a positive test was taken with the best of intentions I’m sure, but it hasn’t helped. More focus on excess deaths relative to the last twenty years or so would have put things into context and may have quelled some of the panic and anxiety, which is doing nobody any good.

I also think it was a mistake to have allowed the public debate to distil down to a very simplistic choice between whether to protect granny or protect the economy. It seems pretty obvious to me that protecting the economy is about protecting jobs, livelihoods and health; it’s about minimising poverty and ultimately about making sure we don’t reduce life expectancy in the longer term. However, that argument hasn’t been made very strongly and certainly doesn’t seem to have been accepted by a lot of the population (and most of MN I should add). The MSM is for sure guilty of stoking these fires, but it doesn’t help that the divisions within the government on these issues were so obvious to all.

So I can forgive the government for their reluctance to lock down and reluctance to close schools (I continue to feel absolutely outraged that we have done that). The rapid flip flopping is fairly unforgivable though, particular about exams (on, off, changed, CAGS, no CAGS) and the recent closure of schools after one day.

I do think they deserve credit for showing flexibility about vaccine development, approval and roll out. So overall, a mixed report card in very difficult circumstances.

Oh, and one other huge mistake was shutting down sports and particularly sports for children. Crazy. We should be encouraging kids to be outside getting exercise. I was speaking to a friend in Indiana and her kids have been playing lots of sports throughout this whole pandemic. I don't think Indianan coronavirus cases are through the roof.

Hindsight is 20/20

Bullsh*t!
I knew someone or even many people would come back and say this, but foresight wasn’t hard for thinking people.

How is it businesses closed offices before the government’s lockdown if it was so hard to foresee? Just answer that? Each point I’ve made up thread is based on lay people without scientific credentials seeing what was happening and suggesting, commenting and where they had the power, implementing safety measures that the government hadn’t thought to mention... yet. Always turning up late. That lateness must have killed at least 25k.

They still have people with no money falling through the gaps, which is another issue.

@BiarritzCrackers
The government did nowhere near all it could. I astonished that anyone could think that. And I still have never seen the government encourage employers to facilitate people working from home - the emphasis has always been on the worker, "work from home if you can". The workers are not the ones with the power to make these decisions.

Another thing to add. Absolutely

@Faultymain5

Hindsight is 20/20

Bullsh*t!
I knew someone or even many people would come back and say this, but foresight wasn’t hard for thinking people.

How is it businesses closed offices before the government’s lockdown if it was so hard to foresee? Just answer that? Each point I’ve made up thread is based on lay people without scientific credentials seeing what was happening and suggesting, commenting and where they had the power, implementing safety measures that the government hadn’t thought to mention... yet. Always turning up late. That lateness must have killed at least 25k.

They still have people with no money falling through the gaps, which is another issue.

Yep the many thousands of us who took our kids out of school a week or two before lockdown managed foresight even without professional advisers and it doesn't take more than basic common sense to know it was the time for a sodding flower festival or letting people fly in unchecked from Italy and China.

No, the government have fucked up, left, right and centre. The only thing I will give them credit for is the vaccine rollout which, in my view (as much as it pains me to admit), has been superb. They’re actually all over it.

Not even hindsight - the consequences of the government actions and inactions were confidently predicted at the time, not simply when looking back on them. They have blood on their hands.

@AuntyClementine

No, the government have fucked up, left, right and centre. The only thing I will give them credit for is the vaccine rollout which, in my view (as much as it pains me to admit), has been superb. They’re actually all over it.

Yes their funding of a programme has been beneficial and best use of funds yet.

However I think the fact the show and army are in charge of organising the roll out maybe something to do with how well it's going

NHS not show.

If this government "did all they could" and still 100,000 of us died, then we need a new government.

I don't think many people would disagree that this is the worst crisis any Government has faced probably since WW2.

But eat out to help out, the mixed messaging, the failed track and trace, PPE shortages, the one day back at school. the fact that only now do they seem to be taking it seriously. They could have done far far more.

metro.co.uk/2020/05/05/18000000-people-entered-uk-without-quarantine-january-march-12657384/
Link above highlights the sheer volume of potential seeding from travel until 1st lockdown. The tragic high death rates in April showed the sheer volume of infections in late Feb March possibly earlier.
No early testing for potential infected. Yet famous/ high profile people were. Still mo mass testing in areas of high overwhelm.
No universal income people on low incomes had to work infected as no support.
High profile leaders flounting rules upset many.
Poor test and trace
All the flounting of rules with no real consequences.
Care homes we can list hundreds of cock ups.
We should have shut borders except freight/ essentials. We could do that now but as usual it will too late.
I hope there will be massive enquiries after this. What if it had been a much more lethal virus with this government we would gave been screwed.

Absolutely not. No borders closed and took ages to enforce masks esp in hospitals. Plus no PPE for HCPs

Let’s not forget the original plan - herd immunity

I think history will show that it could have been better handled very differently but that hindsight is a wonderful thing.

In fact, in the early weeks, I thought the PM and his ministers were handling it all quite well, although maybe now we can see they should have acted differently.

Things changed after he was ill, not sure why, but the big disaster was the Cummings business. Not because he broke the rules, or even because he kept his job, but because no one was prepared to condemn his actions, he was even commended for doing what was right for his family etc. After that, whether consciously or subconsciously, a very large proportion of the population came to think the rules weren't as important as they previously believed and we had the whole law/guidance thing where numerous posters on here and elsewhere were keen to point out that there was no need to follow the recommendations that were only guidance.

@FoolsAssassin

No absolutely not. I think my Dad kind of thinks they have. He knows on one level they haven’t but I think the magnitude of their complete fuck up is a bit hard for him to comprehend so he suppresses it as it is easier for him to cope with thinking it is just what happens in a pandemic rather than the Government have messed it up badly and that Johnson who he likes, is a complete fuck up.

I think this is it - some people are scared to think we are led by idiots. So they tell themselves other stories.

No , but I also think some of the British public are also responsible for the high numbers as they don’t like rules , plus the new variant .

I don’t think it’s black and white . A combination of causes .