COVID Deaths -How do other countries count ?

[Baycob]

I saw the news regarding the Covid related deaths. Firstly, it’s awful. I’m sorry to anyone who has been affected by this, I can’t begin to imagine your anguish 💐

I do have a question though. According to the Gov website the figures are based on those who have died within 28 days of testing positive for COVID.

What about other countries, are the counting the same way ? What if someone had another disease and they were more susceptible to Covid, but the stress from Covid caused the other disease to exacerbate and then the death was attributed to the original disease they had? From what it seems, in the U.K., it would still be defined as a Covid death, but what about other counties ?

There are many countries with much worse healthcare provisions than the U.K., so I just want to understand why our statistics are so bad.

@inquietant I’m certainly not a denier. The opposite if you knew my background.

@Eyewhisker is it ? I would regard any country in the EAA as a development country. It’s blindly obvious that they are not measuring in the U.K.

@enjoyingscience I’m not trying to cushion the awful numbers coming out of the U.K.. It’s the fact that it’s widely reported in other countries, including Poland, that the U.K. is doing a terrible job at managing the pandemic. And because of that the Government are being constantly slated for their approach in comparison to their neighbours, it would be pertinent to gage whether our strategies are actually working. Simply we need comparisons. How on earth can we use the data that comes out of these countries when there is a possibility that they are not measuring the rate in the same way ?I know that lockdown in Poland was eased of the summer to a much greater extent than it was here. Loosely, in terms of population, they had 75,000 excess deaths in 2020 and the U.K. had 71,000 excess deaths by the week ending December 2020 despite the UK’s population being around 40% larger. Personally I think that’s something to think about, you obviously disagree.

@Eyewhisker it’s blindingly obvious they are not measuring in the same way as the U.K. *

@justchecking1

I don’t think we have England and Wales figures yet but other countries with lockdowns had pretty much the same number of deaths from road traffic accidents and work place accidents as the 5 year average. The same with infectious diseases excluding flu which has pretty much disappeared.

They all have differences, particularly if someone is covid + and has a life limiting illness. Some countries still aren't testing everyone. Comparing isn't that helpful

@movingonup20

So why is their so much anger directed at the Government’s strategies ? Why are the media praising other countries and talking about how bad it is here ?

My intention is not to minimise the figures coming out of the U.K., it’s awful and we need to bring levels down. We need lockdown to continue until figures are manageable. I support this strategy.

I just want to know if we are really doing as poorly as we are led to believe? Or are we doing a reasonable/comparable job when compared to other developed nations.

@inquietant

This constant question about covid deaths is a form of covid denial, or covid scepticism.

It is very similar to the type of questions asked by climate change deniers when shown statistics on temperature rises.

The key thing is - do doctors believe those deaths are covid deaths? Yes. There isn't a big conspiracy to lie to you about this. If anything, the government would prefer a smaller number.

Exactly.

People can say "with covid" all they like but
there are 103,602 dead British people where a doctor put covid on their death certificate, and we have 99,211 excess deaths.

Because of denial and covid minimising we'll soon have more.

Another 15-20,000 more before the end of February.

Norway had less deaths last year than the five year average. As did New Zealand and half a dozen others. They're in negative excess deaths. And we were too. Until last March.

@Baycob

My intention is not to minimise the figures coming out of the U.K., it’s awful and we need to bring levels down. We need lockdown to continue until figures are manageable. I support this strategy.

I just want to know if we are really doing as poorly as we are led to believe? Or are we doing a reasonable/comparable job when compared to other developed nations.

• yes, we are doing as poorly as it appears
• no, we are not doing a reasonable job

Sadly, as scary as it is, the UK has done very badly, and looks set to unlock a few weeks early this time too.

And for every death, there are 5 or 6 people who have been really, really ill and who need long term support. Half a million people with ruined health.

And then many more with long covid.

And no clue yet about long term organ damage in healthy people who had mild covid.

The government have really been very reckless.

@inquietant I totally agree. Why there isn’t more outrage about our deaths is beyond me. I don’t understand the apathy. It’s totally shocking.

A relative died in a care home. Tested negative but because it was in the care home covid related on death cert. Would that be counted?

@marbellamarc

A relative died in a care home. Tested negative but because it was in the care home covid related on death cert. Would that be counted?

No, the UK death rate is those after a positive test.

The real number is higher.

ok

Good (and expert) take on death rates here from David Spiegelhalter: www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-deaths-statistics-data-cases-accuracy/

@inquietant

This constant question about covid deaths is a form of covid denial, or covid scepticism.

It is very similar to the type of questions asked by climate change deniers when shown statistics on temperature rises.

The key thing is - do doctors believe those deaths are covid deaths? Yes. There isn't a big conspiracy to lie to you about this. If anything, the government would prefer a smaller number.

It’s really not. I accept our figures are terrible. I don’t think I’m a COVID denier to question Russia’s.