Kids likely won't be vaxed for quite a while. We need to discuss what this will mean

[Kokeshi123]

Now that the vaccine is here and is starting to be rolled out, discussion is inevitably turning to the subject of vaccination for children.

The current vaccine has not been approved for under 16s. According to this link, "Given trials for kids younger than 12 years won’t begin until safety and efficacy are evaluated in kids 12+, it will likely be sometime in 2022 before a vaccine is approved for kids aged 5-11 years and 2022 or beyond in those even younger."

dearpandemic.org/timeline-for-vaccinations-for-children/

That certainly has some implications. It will raise questions for families who need to travel across international borders, for example. How will this be managed?

It also has implications for herd immunity. We can't get to herd immunity without children being (mostly) vaccinated, and it seems likely that the virus will continue to circulate among children until that happens. I think patience with school/nursery closures is only going to continue for so much longer. But as long as the virus is continuing to slosh around in schools etc., it's inevitable that we will continue to see outbreaks with deaths/hospitalizations throughout 2021 and probably 2022---probably mostly in areas/communities that have high rates of vaccine refusal and have enough unvaccinated over 50s to form a cluster. How is this going to be handled? I don't think people are going to respond well to even more school closures and requests to keep children away from other kids, especially if it starts to become fairly obvious that it's mainly vaccine refusers who are getting sick.

And how can we make sure that the vaccine is given to as many kids as possible? The virus mostly does not seem to be very dangerous for children, so we may have to rely quite heavily on people's sense of civic duty to ensure that they get their kids vaxed.

I don't see this as an issue. children for the most part are not adversely affected by the virus and if 80% of the adult population is vaccinated what's the issue.

I believe that a nasal vaccine is being trialled for adults.
If it’s adapted and passed for children, job done.

I wouidnt be happy for my children to be vaxed yet.

Also there is no need.

If adults are vaccinated and therefore don’t get very ill with it why does it matter about vaccinating children? They will get it but almost completely mildly and it will be nothing more than a minor bug like they get all the time. There should be some exceptions for CEV children but I can’t see any need for children under 16 to be vaccinated.

Children are at absolute LEAST risk of the virus. Getting children vaccinated against covid isn't even on the horizon at the moment. There's just absolutely no way Schools will be shut up just because children aren't vaccinated imo.

The most at-risk and most vulnerable need to be vaccinated first as a priority obviously. But if we're at the stage where we're concerned about vaccinating the absolute least-risk group, we're no longer worried about the virus as it is. By the time we do get to that stage, the concern we should have for covid should be minimal. By the stage every adult has been vaccinated, the pressure on the NHS / the amount of people getting very sick will be minimal.

I'm also not worried about my kids getting COVID19 per se, but if children form a reservoir of infection, it may keep spilling out and causing outbreaks among older people in areas where vaccination rates are poor. If education keeps on being disrupted (temporary closures etc.) each time this happens, people are not going to be happy.

Covid will be like flu

That kills people every year

(It also depends how good vaccine takeup among adults is. If takeup is very high, no problem. But refusal rates seem to be quite high in some areas)

"but if children form a reservoir of infection, it may keep spilling out and causing outbreaks among older people in areas where vaccination rates are poor."

Why should we vaccinate children just because some idiots refuse to be vaccinated when they're offered it?

If they get covid after refusing the vaccine, that's their problem. And the NHS's problem, of course... but arguably less costly than vaccinating the entire child population when it's not necessary.

I imagine Most of today's children will end up with lifelong immunity from repeat exposure; this with vaccines for most adults will lead to very low hospitalisations & deaths going forward.

I don’t think anyone will stand for restrictions to protect those who refuse to be vaccinated. Children are very low risk. Vaccine uptake generally has been quite high, so hopefully the virus levels will be low. As for travel, I’m hoping it will be if the children’s parents have been vaccinated and the child has a negative test then they can travel.

@Atrixie

If adults are vaccinated and therefore don’t get very ill with it why does it matter about vaccinating children? They will get it but almost completely mildly and it will be nothing more than a minor bug like they get all the time. There should be some exceptions for CEV children but I can’t see any need for children under 16 to be vaccinated.

It’s not about how I’ll they become though it is the ongoing disruption them contracting it will cause. Still being sent home to isolate every time they are in contact, then if they get it themselves, schools still closing. They will still be missing school time and employers patience is going to run out very quickly with parents having to repeatedly stay home with isolating children. Exams will still be disrupted.

Also surely there is a risk allowing the virus to freely circulate amongst children will lead to even more mutations? I’m not really keen on any strains that have mutated entirely around children and the implications that could have.

I know things are different in parts of England but here (Scotland) kids under 12 haven’t been distracted since June 20 and still aren’t and we’ve not had any real issues. In our school a teacher caught it and taught two classes but not one child had any symptoms afterwards (all isolated anyway). Symptoms in under12s seem rare. The key is just protecting adults who interact with them. Parents and teachers must get vaccinated!!

@Angel2702

Also surely there is a risk allowing the virus to freely circulate amongst children will lead to even more mutations? I’m not really keen on any strains that have mutated entirely around children and the implications that could have.

This is a really good point. If the virus can't succeed and multiply in largely vaccinated adult populations, it will mutate into variations which spread more easily in children and those with lower levels of immunity in adult groups. That's a virus's raison d'etre, to spread itself effectively. Then what the hell will we be dealing with? This is why countries that have taken the most robust steps to combat and squash the outbreak have done the right thing; the more cases there are sloshing around the population, the more chance there is of dangerous mutations.

I don't think vaccinating children due to low uptake of the vaccine in some adult populations is a way forward at all. If people are anti-vaccine and refuse to take it then that's their ridiculous choice and subsequently they have to realise they are at risk. That's the reality of their decision.

Although agree having Covid mutate due to circulation in schools is the largest risk. Unless it mutates into a much less severe form which, in itself, is a gamble.

I don't see this as an urgent issue. I'm more concerned with my mum getting some protection.

Children don’t need to be vaccinated.

Don’t forget that mutations can actually be a good thing too if they mutate into a milder form. We could actually be doing ourselves a disservice by trying to prevent that happening!

I think this is something to worry about in the autumn tbh. The vaccination programme is going well, but it is still going to be summer before all of the priority groups have been fully vaccinated, and there will still be millions of younger adults to vaccinate who aren't on the list at all.

Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, hospital admissions will come down and there will be no excuse for schools (or people's livelihoods) being closed. Repeated isolation is likely to be a problem for some time tho. I can't see the government giving up on that for a long time.

I don't think your OP is based on any facts at all.

I don’t know of many vulnerable who won’t get the vaccine. They’re chomping at the bit in my experience. Die hard anti vaxxers tend to be the healthy ‘couldn’t happen to me’ crew.

So no, children shouldn’t be sacrificed further for adults who refuse to look after their own health.

My teenager brought Covid home. We went to great lengths at home to try and not catch it, mainly as other teen gets asthma. We're also late 40s, I'm overweight/obese with high blood pressure.

We didn't catch it (that we are aware of) but pretty sure my other teen will bring it home at some point due to high infections in our schools here (one son had 6 self isolations, major disruption year 10. 40 days having to Wfh for him).

So I'm concerned about constant self isolations and catching it ourselves. I'm just two and a half years younger than the current vaccine cut off of 50 yet exposed to the virus everyday through school. I wish the vaccine could be delivered to the 40+ as the next category, as has happened in Israel.

I'm Wfh luckily but at some point we expect to have to go back to the office, probably before we get the vaccine.

The vaccine isnt 100% effective and there will always be people who cant take it due to allergies so yes i can see that having a large section of people un vaccunated means that it can spill out into the peoole who it hasnt worked for or cant take it.

Thats before you get to the wont take it. And yes i can see it might mean continuing quarantining abroad as a lot of countries ask fir not just a negative result but also a period of quaranteen.

But all we can do is hope that it is at the higher end of working for 95% after 2 shots and that the remaining section dont get bad casesand have room in them for icu..

@Hotcuppatea

I don't see this as an urgent issue. I'm more concerned with my mum getting some protection.

I agree with this, we have more important issues to address imo, I'm not worried about my children.

@Angel2702 no they won’t. The kids who are ill will be off or actually, not even off if they don’t feel ill and everyone else stays in school just as would happen with anyone other illness. It will work it’s way through the class quickly but there won’t be a need to distance because it will be a mild illness and won’t be affecting those who are vaccinated. Schools won’t be closed