Mandatory hotel quarantine in the UK

[Circumlocutious]

There was the New Zealand thread which touched on this, but I thought it’s helpful to have a more targeted discussion. Mandatory hotel quarantine for all UK arrivals, likely to be signed off on tomorrow.

Twitter thread from FT journalist discussing some of the complex aspects involved:

mobile.twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1353657496716660737

Do you think it’ll ‘work’? (presumably its main purpose is to stop new covid variants from coming in). Why / why not?

@ShanghaiDiva - I've said before - I have colleagues in Wuhan, who say everything is pretty much back to normal. And family members in Australia where again, everything is pretty normal - masks & some social distancing, but in Australia they are quick to clamp down on outbreaks of the C-19 infection, and ye, they have quarantine.

For those with family overseas - well, this is part of the judgement you make when you emigrate. My parents went to Australia when travel was far more expensive & communications also time-consuming. My mother wasn't able to get back here to see her parents before they died. That's part of what you weigh up when you emigrate, whether it's going to live in France (as a PP says upthread) or the Antipodes, in my experience. But I have a very international family, so we're used to distance.

How do other countries who have instigated border controls like this cope with business travellers/hauliers etc.

Australian nationals have to quarantine in Australia don't they?

In some ways I think we really need it and it should have been in place a long time ago.

On the other side, this would mean that I won’t be able to see my parents. I havent seen them for a year now. I dint really fancy another year or whatever before I see them again. My mum already 78yo. I can see time disappearing :(:(

For those with family overseas - well, this is part of the judgement you make when you emigrate.*
*
Yes because a global pandemic is first on the list of expat issues.

[quote QueenoftheAir]@ShanghaiDiva - I've said before - I have colleagues in Wuhan, who say everything is pretty much back to normal. And family members in Australia where again, everything is pretty normal - masks & some social distancing, but in Australia they are quick to clamp down on outbreaks of the C-19 infection, and ye, they have quarantine.

For those with family overseas - well, this is part of the judgement you make when you emigrate. My parents went to Australia when travel was far more expensive & communications also time-consuming. My mother wasn't able to get back here to see her parents before they died. That's part of what you weigh up when you emigrate, whether it's going to live in France (as a PP says upthread) or the Antipodes, in my experience. But I have a very international family, so we're used to distance.[/quote]
@QueenoftheAir, that’s very different though.

I’ve done that myself. When you are overseas like this, you are CHOSING to be in that situation. It’s part of what you agree to.
When family is in another eu country and you can go back a few time sin the year if you want to, you don’t. There is nothing comparable.

And btw I have an international family. One where only my parents are in our ‘home country’ and no one else is.

I still see that as an issue. Because I and they never chose to be in a position where it’s hard to see each other. That’s actually the whole reason why they moved from where they were overseas and move back to Europe!!!

The recent case in New Zealand does highlight the limitations of even their stringent system. It’s looking like a woman contracted the South Africa variant in hotel quarantine, from another woman staying on the same floor... Just how infectious is this variant and how do you prevent a situation like that?

Maybe the same body who check on all the genuine reasons for mask exemption!?

And btw I have an international family. One where only my parents are in our ‘home country’ and no one else is

Ditto. But I was prepared for the possibility of not seeing family. Honestly, surely people think this through? Your situation is not special or different.

For those with family overseas - well, this is part of the judgement you make when you emigrate

When I moved country, there had never in my lifetime been a pandemic that affected global freedom of movement. No, I didn't factor it in. Many things, but not that. It's been hard, I lost both parents in the last two decades, but at least I could go to them when I needed to.

Fuck, I feel so absolutely disproportionally affected by this whole thing. I haven't seen the rest of my family for a frighteningly long time now as my previous trip was cancelled due to ill health. DH industry was wiped out overnight at the first lockdown. Now he finally manages to get some work abroad as there's nothing going on here and I have to wake up to news that they're going to possibly stick him in a fucking hotel for ten days on his return and wipe out most of his profit.

But what is it I'm to remember? Oh yes. There's a global pandemic, in case I haven't noticed, and it's not all about me. Sorry, forgot myself there.

Exactly quentin and tonmoulin

it’s absolutely true that when I started my bi-located life, I did neglect to imagine how I would manage to keep my pecker up after a year of rolling restrictions and border closures caused by a global pandemic ramps my stress up to unmanageable levels. Careless of me.

New Zealand etc did it

Not for "everyone" (which some have suggested) they didn't - list of exceptions here: www.immigration.govt.nz/about-us/covid-19/border-closures-and-exceptions/critical-purpose-reasons-you-can-travel-to-new-zealand

We had a PP recently who insisted "nobody" went to work for 7 weeks and was asked how emergency services functioned ... odd that they never answered that

I have family abroad and I support the quarantine in a hotel. Whatever makes life more normal for children is supported in my books.

Sorry, max, that’s horrible. Not a million miles from my situation, and it’s shit. Hurrah for those who can stoically accept it, good for you, but a bit of compassion wouldn’t go amiss.

Yes because a global pandemic is first on the list of expat issues

Well, for a start "expat" is a silly term. It's emigration.

But surely, people think about the emergencies, and the possibilities of not being able to travel? Of growing old away from other family members? I have a very international family (basically, several generations back to the 19th century of running the British Empire all over the place), and you think about thee things. Maybe because we've been doing it for several generations, and can remember times when flights were long & expensive , telephone calls expensive & tricky, etc etc.

But I'm staggered that people are seriously saying that they haven't thought through the difficulties of emigration, as well as its advantages. Very short-sighted.

@MaxNormal @SophocIestheFox

But people will tell you to suck it up because they've made sacrifices too because they haven't seen their mum since Xmas.

I think it could work.
But it would have to be implemented thoughtfully and effectively - and I’m not sure the govt have the will or competence to do that.

For people working abroad, I don’t know if a different shift pattern - eg 12 or 16 weeks on and 6weeks off? They could organise to do pick-up/drop-off depots at the channel, so drivers only operate 1 country (except drop off at nearby depot the other side). I don’t consider this more complicated than building a nightingale in a few weeks or the mass vaccination/testing program. But it would require lots of resources.

On the plus side, I think hotels near airports could have more business - as people would need to occupy rooms for the 2 weeks. If there are limits on numbers entering U.K. due to hotels space - you can have some discretion for compassionate reasons.

Reference lockdown when it started in March, why did we go through having national restrictions, but allowed people to land at UK airports and just go through unchecked?
People just landed and got on buses and trains.

And those of you jumping one me - try reading my posts. I am in pretty much the same situations as you, but living alone and working flat out. My parents are elderly - my mother in the terminal decline of dementia.

Of course, no-one expected a global pandemic, but to assume that there would never be obstacles to easy cheap available travel and communications is also very foolhardy.

We should have controlled our borders from March 2020, and we should have had a better way of ensuring those isolating in the UK actually did this. I see such selfishness all around me.

@QueenoftheAir

And those of you jumping one me - try reading my posts. I am in pretty much the same situations as you, but living alone and working flat out. My parents are elderly - my mother in the terminal decline of dementia.

Of course, no-one expected a global pandemic, but to assume that there would never be obstacles to easy cheap available travel and communications is also very foolhardy.

We should have controlled our borders from March 2020, and we should have had a better way of ensuring those isolating in the UK actually did this. I see such selfishness all around me.

It’s very difficult even with resources.

Which is why Aus switched to hotel quarantine.

@SophocIestheFox I'm so sorry to hear you're also affected. It's tough and not knowing future timescales is very hard.

@QueenoftheAir you can't compare Europe with Australia. Your experience just doesn't marry with that of an emigrant to France. France is a 30 minute train ride from folkestone. My French ILs live closer to my parents home in England than most other people in England do..

Even within Europe you can still drive from France to Spain without issue, despite not being able to move within the French or Spanish provinces, due to Schengen rights.

Expatriate is a valid word, often used to imply temporary movement as opposed to a more settled emigrant...

Thanks Quentin, thanks max

@QuentinInQuarantino

We are all making sacrifices, not seen family for months.

It is not remotely the same

No foreign resident wants to pop to Wigan on a pandemic holiday because it's nice this time of year.

If your sister was hit by a car and had nobody to watch her kids, or your mum was dying or your child was seriously ill and you needed your mum to help you, you wouldn't have to pay £1500 and wait 14 days for the privilege of missing your relatives death or emergency.

It’s a pandemic, an emergency situation. Unfortunately free movement of people from multiple places isn’t going to help.

Likewise you’d be unable to travel in adverse weather or if the vehicle you were travelling in was faulty.

What are other countries who have these measures already in place doing in the situations you mention? New Zealand for example.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Good, better late than never. People don’t need holidays and if more business is done remotely the better for the environment anyway.

The charge for the hotel needs to be high otherwise people will not stop travelling.

You do realise that people travel for reasons other than holiday, like seeing family for example?