Secondary school closure not a disaster

[Rowenasemolina]

In among all the doom laden unhappy threads, I just want to put the other side.

Some children prefer home learning , and do better

No teacher time is being wasted on bad behaviour, so the whole lesson is about the lesson.

Given that 25-50% of learning time in schools is wasted For the average child for the average week, there are positives to the current set up

And the school meals sent home are no worse than the school meals served on site. Maybe now the electorate will wake up to the absolute con of s a school meal system which takes millions of pounds and spends almost all of it on wages rather than food. School meals should be got rid of altogether

As a tutor, I would say around a quarter of my students say they prefer being in school, a quarter day they prefer being at home, and half vary in their feelings from day to day.

They certainly have less interruptions to their learning from badly behaved students at home though.

Not surprising, it is the parents of the badly behaved students that are Complaining most in our schools, and pushing hardest to get them back In

I just realised something about my schooling in year 7 that I could compare in some way with the situation now.

I was taught at home for almost all of year 7 as I didn’t get a place at the secondary school my parents wanted me to go to, so my mum taught me at home. Was great for me academically and useless for me socially and I think had quite an effect on me ever since.

There is more opportunity for children to socialise, albeit in a mostly virtual way now but there is a big difference between being there in person and through a screen. And the independence they are losing is another issue.

@TwelvePaws

And I do think many people have forgotten what a hard environment secondary school especially can be for children. They weren’t very nice places when I was at school and they don’t seem to have changed all that much which is why many kids are happier at home and many parents are saying their kids mental health has improved. I don’t think the bichiness and ‘banter’ at school is character building though like many parents seem to think it is. My kids are happier away from it.

Depends on friendship groups I suppose

playing football with thier mates, being in the school play

You realise theres a fair number of kids for whom this activities are torturous?
Theres also a fair number of kids for whom socialising at school just does not work. Kids can be cruel

Depends on friendship groups I suppose

All of my children have a group of good friends and get on well with others. It doesn’t mean schools are nice environments. Most people I know as an adult don’t have great memories of secondary school even though they had friends and were popular, me included. Secondary schools are grim and social media has added to it.

I would have been very happy and not disadvantaged by learning at home if this had happened when I was at secondary school (assuming we had the technology we have nowadays of course).

But I had:
a SAHM who was a qualified teacher
a sister only 2 years younger than me who was my best friend
my own bedroom with my own desk and computer
a garden and safe local area
2 degree educated parents, one in the Arts and one in the Sciences
a naturally introverted and 'geeky' personality
no learning difficulties

The average mumsnetter's child is probably in a similar position. As are most of the children I teach. But I imagine there are hundreds of thousands of children who are not so lucky.

There's also a difference between being happy doing something temporarily and wanting to keep it. My passions in and out of school were Music, Drama, Dance and Gymnastics. They weren't just hobbies either, they're what I got my qualifications in and base my job around. I couldn't have done that online.

@TwelvePaws

Depends on friendship groups I suppose

All of my children have a group of good friends and get on well with others. It doesn’t mean schools are nice environments. Most people I know as an adult don’t have great memories of secondary school even though they had friends and were popular, me included. Secondary schools are grim and social media has added to it.

I definitely have good memories where we had fun. Especially as we got older.

Ds laughs a lot chatting and enjoys rl friendships. It’s a lot to take away.

I have no doubt it’s a pressured situation for some. Not much SM bar WhatsApp which might help.

Some can embrace new home learning as preference but not for here. Although school is doing great. And Ds seems pretty good.

I agree with you OP, but I still think socializing with other people is a very important part of education.

My DD (16) is quite shy and does well alone, and she was very happy to have remote lessons at first, but at this point even she is quite tired of it and wants to meet up with her friends. Children do have different personalities but I feel that most of them definitely benefit from regular contact with other people.

Have you tried all round the kitchen table? With noise cancelling headphones as required. I used to hate being shipped off on my own for homework as a kid.
Doesn't work for only children. Many are completely alone all day while parents are at work.

@kowari it was a specific response to an individual who had already mentioned children in the multiple

I think one positive of this would be if regional or local state-maintained online schools were established for pupils who actually prefer it and can learn better that way.

This^^

Haven't RTFT, but it's not just the parents of badly behaved kids who wants their to return asap, OP, not by a long stretch. My DC11 is a quiet, industrious student who misses their friends and finds 4.5 hours a day in front of a screen utterly draining. You're massively and conveniently overlooking the social and mental health benefits of children going to school to have a pop at kids who struggle in class.

Completely disagree. Home Learning doesn't work for my DCs despite them having the space and devices to support learning.

They miss friends and teacher interaction - especially the massive benefits of group work (incl in sports, and performing arts, which they are normally heavily involved in and get a lot of self worth from).

One DC is quiet, has little social contact electronically, and is struggling with MH.

Other DC is easily distracted and struggles with the 'dryness' of the worksheets provided, and the lack of opportunity for timely feedback/questions.

I believe both are falling significantly behind.

Both DH and I work FT in demanding jobs so have little opportunity to support in the way we would ideally like to.

Virtually no provision of live/prerecorded lessons have sapped the DCs engagement /enthusiasm.

Worry over exams, assessment model, constantly changing guidance have led to a lot of worry.

I could go on.

But apart from that it's fine 🙄

Still, it's a very good substitute when only a few years ago they would have had zero interaction... Older dd isn't missing a beat now and is doing well.

Also v true about classroom disruption! Very little on line, I know last march many places that went on line actually finished ahead of the curriculum!

Tim tims, it's being able to interact and see peers this time round that's seen a marked difference in older dd mood...

You should write to school to ask for more interactive provision, younger gets 2 1/2 sessions with chat.... From teacher then work posted up on oak.

Younger dd actually finds it really annoying!

I think this is missing the point of school...it's not just about learning to read and write. It's surely to help society produce well rounded children to grow into independent well rounded adults. They need to learn how to deal with disruption in class, they need to meet children from different backgrounds, they need to learn how to interact with different children and adults. They "should" be learning about more than just where to use an apostrophe, that making mistakes is how we gain knowledge etc etc.

My dd says she is happy at secondary, she's year 8 but her school did nothing to help them all bond or mix, I remember asking about it, deputy head, very busy man, totally shrugged me off, sink or swim approach...

Wasn't interested in students bonding, assisting them making friends... Other secondary around us did lots or little, but not nothing.

It's the pits, I'm trying to get her through the 13+ to get her out of it, but if course it's been put on hold...

As a family we've endured much worse than this when dc smaller... We are petty relaxed about covid.. Touchwood we havant lost our jobs yet.. We can keep dc ticking over... We are up beat which I'm sure might change if anyone looses work..

But far worse things have happened to us and having to stay at home to be safe isn't an issue. Dc perfectly fine ticking along... Yes it's incredibly stressful trying to support younger dd with sen but not as stressful wondering if every cough or cold she came home front school with was covid... Triggering her chest issues and perhaps ending up in hospital!

@Eyewhisker

In other words, it is not working for those who need it most

I think the thread could be more accurately titled Secondary school closure not a disaster for some students

My DC are fine. But then they’re very able academically, DH and I have been able to afford to drop some hours at work to support them and we can afford to pay tutors for extra support. DD (Year 6 primary, not secondary) is actively thriving. DS and DSS (one in the middle of A Levels) are finding some benefits but certain subjects like French are a lot harder and I think they are behind where they’d have been if the schools had been open.

We will weather this just fine, but many won’t.

I support the lockdown and school closures completely, but we need to be aware that this is a disaster for some children so that we can put measures in place to make sure those children are able to recover from this.

When my DD(19) was school aged, she completely forfeited education when she fell ill with ME in Y9. She's still ill now and never made it back to school. At the time the school couldn't provide any online education for her. It was unheard of and required too much shenanigans, so she got nothing.

Of course now it is possible (though too late for her as she's left school), along with telephone GP appointments, telephone consultations, and lots of other things that were previously impossible to provide remotely to the housebound and bedbound. She's also having more social interaction now her friends at uni are at home and online, whereas before she would go weeks only speaking to her parents and brother because her friends were so busy and living in the outside world.

So I hope this continues for those DC who are too ill to attend school or participate in life in person, and that as a society we have a greater appreciation for how being online improves accessibility for those who need it. Rather than focusing on how it's changed things.

Of course never and their past school and future school will aid that?. They won't be off school for ever, but as for dealing with the badly behaved disrupter child... No I'm not sure any dc should have to sit through all that... Wastes everyone's time...

@ThelmaNotLouise

Haven't RTFT, but it's not just the parents of badly behaved kids who wants their to return asap, OP, not by a long stretch. My DC11 is a quiet, industrious student who misses their friends and finds 4.5 hours a day in front of a screen utterly draining. You're massively and conveniently overlooking the social and mental health benefits of children going to school to have a pop at kids who struggle in class.

The last para does feel a bit- if you don’t want a digital life you must be a disruptive student

Not the case at all

Agree with pp on all rounded part of school although I’m sure some students prefer out of it

All we here on endless threads is.. Kids need to school, devastated dd, what to do..

This thread is an important balance... Of course over all its not ideal but actually many dc prefer it or are just rolling with it perfectly fine.

My children have been home educated for years and so the current situation has made no difference to their actual school work. I have missed our regular trips out and meet ups but my children have not seemed that worried about it.

We did try some of the “lockdown learning” resources a while ago but after 1 week of boring videos and pointless worksheets we went back to our normal curriculum. School at home doesn’t work - home education is not school at home.

The problem isn’t that the schools are shut it is that so
many families are struggling to survive. If families can’t feee their children without being given a box of (pathetic looking) food there is something seriously wrong with society.

If parents are so busy working all the hours God sends that they are physically unable to spend time with children - there is something wrong with society.

If children are so stressed and unhappy by being at home that they have developed new mental health problems there is something wrong.

It seems to me as a school outsider that reopening schools just papers over these cracks.

If children were meant to be at home stuck in front of a computer to learn effectively then schools wouldn’t exist.

Justifying the devastating effect this shitshow will have on our children mentally and academically won’t work. But hey; at least teachers don’t have to deal with “badly behaved children” anymore!

Neither do they have to deal with children screaming and sobbing at 3am because they are so upset at missing school family and friends.

I’ll do the flower so you don’t have to

@Makinganewthinghappen

My children have been home educated for years and so the current situation has made no difference to their actual school work. I have missed our regular trips out and meet ups but my children have not seemed that worried about it.

We did try some of the “lockdown learning” resources a while ago but after 1 week of boring videos and pointless worksheets we went back to our normal curriculum. School at home doesn’t work - home education is not school at home.

The problem isn’t that the schools are shut it is that so
many families are struggling to survive. If families can’t feee their children without being given a box of (pathetic looking) food there is something seriously wrong with society.

If parents are so busy working all the hours God sends that they are physically unable to spend time with children - there is something wrong with society.

If children are so stressed and unhappy by being at home that they have developed new mental health problems there is something wrong.

It seems to me as a school outsider that reopening schools just papers over these cracks.

I love my dds school. I don't home educate and have no desire to do so.

I think this is missing the point of school...it's not just about learning to read and write. It's surely to help society produce well rounded children to grow into independent well rounded adults. They need to learn how to deal with disruption in class, they need to meet children from different backgrounds, they need to learn how to interact with different children and adults. They "should" be learning about more than just where to use an apostrophe, that making mistakes is how we gain knowledge etc etc.

This ^

The fact that some pupils are disruptive isn't a reason to hide at home fgs. Life is going to be just full of gobshite people we don't want to have to deal with. It isn't a reason to live a virtual life of avoidance.

Besides, if your child can't cope with school there's always been the option to home school.

School is about far more than passing an exam. Children are missing out on things such as the independence of travelling to school, mixing with different children and adults, a full curriculum including practical lessons, taking part in extra curricular activities. For many it's also about safety and routine.

I really don't think some teenagers enjoying learning online in bed is a very good argument for mass closures fgs.