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So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter

999 replies

choosingcrumble · 24/01/2021 08:59

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/children-face-months-at-home-as-schools-stay-shut-until-easter-wp5ltpm82?fbclid=IwAR1l0gRSzuJLIv508reRmBEojbYfoGOsWwe3_pBFmKpA4EbI1IgC5dKC2uE

I suspected it wouldn't be until then, let's just hope that it doesn't stretch into the summer.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
catgirl1976 · 24/01/2021 12:06

@starrynight19

Here is an email from the DfE confirming it was withdrawn

Department for Education

Information for schools with members of the National Education Union and Unison

This email is about recent advice to members from the National Education Union and UNISON about attendance of staff in schools and colleges because it may be impacting on your ability to provide on-site provision for vulnerable children and the children of critical workers. Their advice was issued before the Prime Minister’s announcement about the national lockdown on Monday evening. More communications about the operation of schools during that lockdown will be coming from the Department for Education shortly.
You will be aware that the National Education Union and UNISON had advised their members that they believe schools are not safe and their members should not be returning to the workplace. We understand that this advice has now been withdrawn. The Government did not agree with this advice because section 44 of the Employment Rights Act, on which they relied for this advice, is specific to each individual employee and cannot be applied in a blanket way to all school staff in the country.
As you know better than anyone, being at school is vital for children and young people’s education and for their wellbeing. Time spent out of education is detrimental for children and young people’s cognitive and academic development, particularly for disadvantaged children and young people. The Government has therefore made it a national priority that education and childcare settings operate as normally as possible during the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.
The decision to limit on-site provision to vulnerable children and the children of critical workers, does not suggest that schools and colleges are no longer safe places. Instead, limiting attendance is about reducing the number of contacts that all of us have with people in other households. We have resisted limiting attendance at schools and colleges until now, but in the face of the rapidly rising numbers of cases across the country and intense pressure on the NHS, we now need to use every lever at our disposal to reduce contacts outside households wherever possible. In all cases, provision must continue to be made on-site for vulnerable children and the children of critical workers to safeguard their welfare and ensure essential services can continue to function.
The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health has in the last few days said: “Children’s wards are usually busy in winter. As of now we are not seeing significant pressure from COVID-19 in paediatrics across the UK. As cases in the community rise there will be a small increase in the number of children we see with COVID-19, but the overwhelming majority of children and young people have no symptoms or very mild illness only. The new variant appears to affect all ages and, as yet, we are not seeing any greater severity amongst children and young people.”
There is no evidence the new strain of the virus causes more serious illness in either children or adults and there continues to be strong evidence, to date, that children and younger people (those under 18 years old) are much less susceptible to severe clinical disease than older people. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey data from 2 September to 16 October showed no evidence of difference in the rates of teachers/education workers testing positive for COVID-19 compared to key workers and other professions. Additionally, the Schools Infection Survey (covering 3 to 19 November) found the infection rate among teachers to be similar to that of the wider population.
The forthcoming guidance will remind you of employers’ health and safety obligations and will ask that you continue to operate the Public Health England (PHE)-endorsed ‘system of controls’ that have been in use throughout the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. These measures create an inherently safer environment for children, young people and staff where the risk of transmission of infection is substantially reduced. The Department for Education (DfE) keeps these controls under review, working with PHE, based on the latest evidence. The way to control this virus is the same, whatever the variant.
We understand that your staff may have concerns about their safety when coming into school, and the appropriate process is for those members of staff to resolve these with you and your leadership team. You will of course be able to discuss and consult as appropriate with any trade union representatives, as well as seeking advice from your Regional Schools Commissioner’s office and local public health teams. If you are receiving letters from members of staff stating that they do not intend to attend the workplace as they do not consider it to be safe, you should engage with them, noting that the NEU and UNISON advice has been withdrawn and setting out, as we have above, the reasons that schools can and should be open. You will also want to consider their specific circumstances and concerns, to which you can then respond. If required, we recommend you seek your own legal advice.
We know this can be a difficult time to be running a school, and that the virus rates will be causing concern. We share your commitment to ensuring children get the best education, and that the process above will take into account all health and educational considerations in looking at this issue.

Monkeytennis97 · 24/01/2021 12:06

@Trickyboy

You keep on banging that drum. It doesn’t make it true. Unions have totally and utterly exploited this horrific situation and thrown a generation of children under the bus.

What complete and utter bollox. I am not a teacher. In fact have no school age children now. So no axe to grind for either party - but if you seriously relieve that teaching unions have the sort of power you suggest - then you need to go borrow your other brain cell so you have two to rub together when you give your head a wobble..

...: do you really believe that an 'oh so powerful union ' .. would not have closed schools as soon as the rates started rising and their members were right in the front line with no PPE ? No they don't have that sort of power.

Here's an idea. Perhaps schools are closed to protect more people from DYING. The average age in ICU is 60 !! . We have nearly 100k dead. The highest death rate in the WORLD per head of the population. So yes. It's a shame that kids aren't in school at the moment. That some are finding it hard. That is undoubtedly difficult. BUT these are all things that will get better over time.

You don't recover from death.
People need to look at the bbc news special report all last week on the 6pm news with a reporter and cameraman showing the reality of what NHS are trying to deal with. With many many people in their 20s, 30s & 40's on ventilators. The healthy 28 yr old married for two years, where the consultant had to call his wife and 'prepare her' fir the fact he will almost certainly die.

Are people really so stupid that they can't see why we can't open ANYTHING up further until this pressure on the NHS is relieved. The time is now for people to stop thinking about how difficult it is to have your child at home - and instead think how lucky they are not to be in a hospital with their life hanging by a thread.

My God never have I agreed more with a post.
MarshaBradyo · 24/01/2021 12:07

@Thewiseoneincognito

The elephant in the room is unfortunately that once they start mixing, children become disease vectors. Them being at school completely undermines the wfh initiative, the household mixing rules and social distancing rules.

BoJo spelled it out clearly for us in his lockdown speech when he called them vectors.

How school closures impact DC is the lesser evil when compared to virus infection rates. As someone without children it doesn’t affect me but it means we could potentially get some normality back if closures remain in place for a longer period.

Parents have to remember that they are not the centre of the world even though their Dc are precious to them. To the greater good they’re just another cog. It’s a hard pill to swallow but try to have some objectivity when looking at the wider picture.

You could say this about any group. We can all say be objective. People don’t care about you etc
Ihatemyseleffordoingthis · 24/01/2021 12:07

I have a Y11. Usually does very well. Utterly despondent and demotivated now.

Urgent and radical approach needed for this year's candidates, and current Y10s. Freeze the curriculum, get them all their Maths and English, concentrate on progression.

No-one wants to hear it but any grades anyone gets 2020 - 2022 people are going to assume are made up. So let's remove the pressure.

Also we should stop pretending all "remote learning" is equal. Stop pretending all teachers have the skills/imagination/energy/capacity for providing decent remote learning. It's just a different thing. No shade on teachers. Stop pretending 5 hours sat in the same chair on video-calls is the same as being in a room with other people.

starrynight19 · 24/01/2021 12:07

[quote catgirl1976]@starrynight19 I didn't say it was deemed to be illegal I said it was legally flawed.

And NEU withdrew the S44 template letter (though refused to admit they had been wrong in proposing a mass S44 exercise across the education industry - they would have been much better advising people to use it in indivual circumstances where an employee could reasonably show they believed there was a serious and imminent danger for example in a high case area with many children still in school)[/quote]
The NEU said this afternoon that it had neither withdrawn the advice nor recognised it was incorrect, but that the template letter had been taken down from the website “as it is no longer relevant” following school closures yesterday.

A Unison spokesperson said: “Gavin Williamson is simply wrong. At no point has UNISON said the guidance and advice to members was incorrect, as he has stated.

It was Gavin Williamson who said it had been withdrawn.
I was replying to the poster who asked you why it was deemed to be illegal.

Itisasecret · 24/01/2021 12:07

@noblegiraffe

he needs to cover up the PP cut.

Is this the change in census date story?

Shocking how unwilling the government are to put money into schools and vulnerable kids.

Yup. Shocking isn’t it?
noblegiraffe · 24/01/2021 12:08

catgirl do you know that the DfE routinely lies about safety in schools?

The NEU advice on section 44 stopped applying the minute that the government closed primary schools.

Kazzyhoward · 24/01/2021 12:09

@MrsMercedes

I think the time off now could be used to streamline curriculums

Do we need half the stuff in it? I’m talking secondary really. Wasn’t our education system due a shakeup? Now might be the time

A bit late now. It should have been done last Summer. But everyone thought we'd "beaten" covid back then.
Thewiseoneincognito · 24/01/2021 12:09

The argument about how it will affect their development is going to be marginal when you consider that the DC are going to have to live with covid being a thing for their entire lives. That is a far worse prospect than simply missing a year or two of school.

They are going to grow up in a world distinctly different to the one we grew up in with sterile social interaction and curbs on freedom of movement. It’s a learning curve and life event that may prove useful to them and is part of their development as strange and alien as it seems to us.

ChevyCamaro · 24/01/2021 12:10

Teachers need the summer hols to look forward to...
I'm trying so hard, but....
I had a total of 5 days off last summer. Work was just too busy ( covid related) I don't whinge about it, it is what it is.
I would still sack off a holiday in the summer to see my teen DC and their friends going off to school in the summer, socialising, playing sports, laughing, learning in class.
Some people will come out of this pandemic showing ingenuity, resilance and compassion
And some will have only showed petty mindedness and an inability to be an adult.
( I'm not taking about those really struggling with their mental health I'm talking about those that couldn't cope if they had to move a holiday). Grow. Up.

MarshaBradyo · 24/01/2021 12:10

[quote catgirl1976]@starrynight19

Here is an email from the DfE confirming it was withdrawn

Department for Education

Information for schools with members of the National Education Union and Unison

This email is about recent advice to members from the National Education Union and UNISON about attendance of staff in schools and colleges because it may be impacting on your ability to provide on-site provision for vulnerable children and the children of critical workers. Their advice was issued before the Prime Minister’s announcement about the national lockdown on Monday evening. More communications about the operation of schools during that lockdown will be coming from the Department for Education shortly.
You will be aware that the National Education Union and UNISON had advised their members that they believe schools are not safe and their members should not be returning to the workplace. We understand that this advice has now been withdrawn. The Government did not agree with this advice because section 44 of the Employment Rights Act, on which they relied for this advice, is specific to each individual employee and cannot be applied in a blanket way to all school staff in the country.
As you know better than anyone, being at school is vital for children and young people’s education and for their wellbeing. Time spent out of education is detrimental for children and young people’s cognitive and academic development, particularly for disadvantaged children and young people. The Government has therefore made it a national priority that education and childcare settings operate as normally as possible during the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.
The decision to limit on-site provision to vulnerable children and the children of critical workers, does not suggest that schools and colleges are no longer safe places. Instead, limiting attendance is about reducing the number of contacts that all of us have with people in other households. We have resisted limiting attendance at schools and colleges until now, but in the face of the rapidly rising numbers of cases across the country and intense pressure on the NHS, we now need to use every lever at our disposal to reduce contacts outside households wherever possible. In all cases, provision must continue to be made on-site for vulnerable children and the children of critical workers to safeguard their welfare and ensure essential services can continue to function.
The Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health has in the last few days said: “Children’s wards are usually busy in winter. As of now we are not seeing significant pressure from COVID-19 in paediatrics across the UK. As cases in the community rise there will be a small increase in the number of children we see with COVID-19, but the overwhelming majority of children and young people have no symptoms or very mild illness only. The new variant appears to affect all ages and, as yet, we are not seeing any greater severity amongst children and young people.”
There is no evidence the new strain of the virus causes more serious illness in either children or adults and there continues to be strong evidence, to date, that children and younger people (those under 18 years old) are much less susceptible to severe clinical disease than older people. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) Coronavirus (COVID-19) Infection Survey data from 2 September to 16 October showed no evidence of difference in the rates of teachers/education workers testing positive for COVID-19 compared to key workers and other professions. Additionally, the Schools Infection Survey (covering 3 to 19 November) found the infection rate among teachers to be similar to that of the wider population.
The forthcoming guidance will remind you of employers’ health and safety obligations and will ask that you continue to operate the Public Health England (PHE)-endorsed ‘system of controls’ that have been in use throughout the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. These measures create an inherently safer environment for children, young people and staff where the risk of transmission of infection is substantially reduced. The Department for Education (DfE) keeps these controls under review, working with PHE, based on the latest evidence. The way to control this virus is the same, whatever the variant.
We understand that your staff may have concerns about their safety when coming into school, and the appropriate process is for those members of staff to resolve these with you and your leadership team. You will of course be able to discuss and consult as appropriate with any trade union representatives, as well as seeking advice from your Regional Schools Commissioner’s office and local public health teams. If you are receiving letters from members of staff stating that they do not intend to attend the workplace as they do not consider it to be safe, you should engage with them, noting that the NEU and UNISON advice has been withdrawn and setting out, as we have above, the reasons that schools can and should be open. You will also want to consider their specific circumstances and concerns, to which you can then respond. If required, we recommend you seek your own legal advice.
We know this can be a difficult time to be running a school, and that the virus rates will be causing concern. We share your commitment to ensuring children get the best education, and that the process above will take into account all health and educational considerations in looking at this issue.[/quote]
Did it last for one day? Jan 4th iirc

Many schools closed and letters were used?

Ihatemyseleffordoingthis · 24/01/2021 12:10

Sorry removing PP?
Can someone link
I fucking despair

catgirl1976 · 24/01/2021 12:10

Picture of the message in case starrynight thinks I was making it up :)

So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter
tappitytaptap · 24/01/2021 12:10

@Covidasaurus

I think they should stop all bubbles apart from those that are taking the place of professional caring services and allow Children to mingle to some degree instead.

Adults can recover from this, I’m not sure our children can.

My children are only getting any education at all because of a childcare bubble. No one sees anyone else outside of it. Why on Earth should that stop?! Or single people not be able to see anyone, that is just ridiculous.
noblegiraffe · 24/01/2021 12:11

Here's the details about the Pupil Premium cut for those unaware.

They've been very sneaky about it. Denying funding for schools whose parents started claiming FSM after October's census when it used to be after the January census.

twitter.com/smithsmm/status/1352866675931144194?s=21

BluebellsGreenbells · 24/01/2021 12:11

They are absolutely hanging working parents out to dry

Better that than the children becoming ill and infecting others? Or is it ok for teachers to become ill and pas or to their families?

Someone has to give and the biggest mix is always schools - do you normally mix with 1000 people daily? Would you want to at the moment?

bumbleymummy · 24/01/2021 12:11

@Trickyboy

You keep on banging that drum. It doesn’t make it true. Unions have totally and utterly exploited this horrific situation and thrown a generation of children under the bus.

What complete and utter bollox. I am not a teacher. In fact have no school age children now. So no axe to grind for either party - but if you seriously relieve that teaching unions have the sort of power you suggest - then you need to go borrow your other brain cell so you have two to rub together when you give your head a wobble..

...: do you really believe that an 'oh so powerful union ' .. would not have closed schools as soon as the rates started rising and their members were right in the front line with no PPE ? No they don't have that sort of power.

Here's an idea. Perhaps schools are closed to protect more people from DYING. The average age in ICU is 60 !! . We have nearly 100k dead. The highest death rate in the WORLD per head of the population. So yes. It's a shame that kids aren't in school at the moment. That some are finding it hard. That is undoubtedly difficult. BUT these are all things that will get better over time.

You don't recover from death.
People need to look at the bbc news special report all last week on the 6pm news with a reporter and cameraman showing the reality of what NHS are trying to deal with. With many many people in their 20s, 30s & 40's on ventilators. The healthy 28 yr old married for two years, where the consultant had to call his wife and 'prepare her' fir the fact he will almost certainly die.

Are people really so stupid that they can't see why we can't open ANYTHING up further until this pressure on the NHS is relieved. The time is now for people to stop thinking about how difficult it is to have your child at home - and instead think how lucky they are not to be in a hospital with their life hanging by a thread.

People aren’t suggesting their children go back to school tomorrow. We know we’re all doing this to relieve pressure on the nhs until the more vulnerable groups were vaccinated. That was supposed to be by mid February though so a hell of a lot earlier than May!
HelloMissus · 24/01/2021 12:11

I was convinced that schools would open again for months which is one of the reasons I took places for my foster kids.
We could manage a few weeks of home schooling but I’m not doing months. No way.

noblegiraffe · 24/01/2021 12:11

catgirl do you know a letter from the DfE isn't worth the paper it's written on? They have lied to you.

RicStar · 24/01/2021 12:12

Schools must be the first thing to reopen. Politically and practically we can not have shops or pubs open before schools. Groups of teenagers in primark but not in school must not be repeated. So we will not get back to normal faster the longer schools are closed.

I feel that from early March assuming that vaccination programme has gone well, and the cases continue to fall then we must as a country start to move on.

Schools should re open in a cautious way, perhaps rotas etc, outdoor sport, small shops, larger retailer etc in that kind of order.

This disease is not devastating for most people, it is so mild for many they do not notice it. We must find a balance.

year5teacher · 24/01/2021 12:12

If this is the case then they need to rethink what is happening right now.
I’m sorry but it’s not fair on the children who are home. The kids in school, in many cases, are actually BEING TAUGHT. That’s what’s happening in my school anyway. There’s obviously schools where children are being supervised accessing live lessons by TAs, but even then they have more socialisation. We need to get all children in at least one day a week, I’m sorry but the alternative is not ok.

catgirl1976 · 24/01/2021 12:14

Oh I know the DfE lie. And the S44 approach became irrelevant when the schools closed anyway.

But the advice was flawed. The unions recieved legal advice letting them know but refuse to admit it was wrong. They could have left members exposed with the approach but thankfully the schools closed anyway so it didn't matter.

But they really are toothless.

starrynight19 · 24/01/2021 12:14

@catgirl1976

Picture of the message in case starrynight thinks I was making it up :)
I don’t doubt any of what you posted was made up I have been listening to the utter rubbish being spouted by the DFE regarding safety in schools throughout this whole pandemic. Doesn’t mean what they are saying is true.
catgirl1976 · 24/01/2021 12:16

@starrynight19 I agree completely. They lie all the time and I wouldn't trust Gavin to feed my cat.

noblegiraffe · 24/01/2021 12:16

But the advice was flawed. The unions recieved legal advice letting them know but refuse to admit it was wrong.

Can we stop saying 'unions' when it was one union?

And it would have been interesting to see a court challenge that schools were safe environments when Boris admitted that they were vectors for transmission and forced to shut them. The teachers were right.

Swipe left for the next trending thread