Hospital outbreaks killed both my grandparents

[littlepieces]

Both my lovely grandparents have died from Covid in this second wave. They hadn't left the house since March, we've been so careful. Then my grandmother got an infection late last year and had to be treated in hospital. She was there just over a week, doing well, and then she picked up Covid and died. A couple of months later my granddad had a bad fall and had to be checked out at hospital. We were terrified for him. He ended up staying for 10 days, also picked up Covid, and died. I can't believe this happened twice in just a few months, we feel like we sent our grandad to his death. I can't believe how incredibly cruel this situation is.

This is worrying. Two elderly relatives of mine are in hospitals after falls, both have caught CV. I'm not sure they will be coming home again.

The ‘having falls’ is interesting. It seems lots of people are hospitalised for that. Perhaps if the health service were more innovative they might gave separate provision for that category of otherwise health people with injuries.

To be fair, Makro, it was a bit more complicated than that. One needed surgery for broken bones, the other had no one to care for them and needed full time care. Also presumably observation after the fall to check they weren't injured. They were taken to separate places for the care needed, but both got it anyway.
A friend is in a care home to recover after surgery- unable to weight bear for several months, I think- and also got it.

💐I’m so sorry for your loss. My fil went and had his cataract done , caught Covid and died . He was 78 and so so careful and hated not seeing his grandkids

@EmmanuelleMakro

The ‘having falls’ is interesting. It seems lots of people are hospitalised for that. Perhaps if the health service were more innovative they might gave separate provision for that category of otherwise health people with injuries.

When elderly people fall at home they can experience catastrophic injuries due to their fragile bones. Many can't return home after and are discharged into aged care homes.

I’m so sorry, that’s so awful

I wish they would add more context to the daily death figures released and give some indication of where they died, or where infections are coming from etc. Because sadly I think care homes and hospitals are driving a considerable amount.

So sorry I went through the same in the first wave both within months in care homes was truly awful. Also wasn’t able to attend funerals then so watched them on zoom. We still haven’t had a chance to mourn them properly or see and hug the rest of the family. It’s just so so sad.

I'm so sorry for your losses. Same happened to my gran, they let us go in and say goodbye and we all caught it so I thought my grandad would follow but he just brushed it off (90s) while I (30s) was horribly ill in bed! Such a weird illness and that makes a total of 6 close family members whove had covid and every one of us caught it in hospital despite working in offices, using public transport, kids in school. Crazy.

HospitaIs are underfunded and not designed to deal with covid. The nightingales do not have the staff. The military are now being deployed, I think the government should have been training them and using them earlier to staff the nightingales. The nightingales should have been used differently. With This new infectious strain and being more deadly, hospitals are just getting worse. It might be better for familes to consider caring for elderly relatives at home, it would stop them falling over so much, Though I can’t see that happening. Let’s hope the vaccine works.

The elderly fall and fracture easily as osteoporosis is silent until you fracture your hip, vertebrae or wrist.

@EmmanuelleMakro

When elderly people fall, their injuries can be awful due to fragile bones and a slower recovery rate. My nan fell a few times as she got older and she was in hospital for weeks each time, followed by a six week stint in a seperate rehab unit.

So sorry OP

I was at the hospital on Thursday for an outpatient appointment for my 15 year old DD. Was incredibly nervous about going but she has cerebral palsy and has been having significant hip pain so had no choice.

Children's department was fantastic, we were the the only patients there. Felt pretty safe. Then we were sent around to X ray and it was awful. No social distancing, the place was full. Im not surprised people are catching it in hospital. I was very shocked

Hospitals are not designed to deal with a pandemic, some of the more modern ones will have lots of isolation cubicles and even wards but ones like the one I work in are old.
There’s few cubicles in each ward.

Cohorting patients in ward bays with the same infectious illness is not new we do it every year. There isn’t enough cubicles in the hospital nevermind one single ward. Its wrong, probably yes but there is no money to change it. In my trust we’ve added pods in some areas, but they make it difficult to see and hear monitoring and the patient. Same nurses still nursing all patients.

It’s hideous and so sad and wrong that so many are catching covid and dying in hospital but I don’t know what else staff can do? Staff are being tested, patients on longer admissions are being tested regularly too. Tested on admission. Strict cleaning protocols in place.

Staff are getting sick too, wards are barely staffed and certainly not correct staffing. Everyone is beyond knackered and bank staff aren’t available as all working . Ppe on all wards is basic on all wards covid and non covid, basic mask, apron and gloves ( visor too) but they aren’t a perfect barrier for infection it’s all so flimsy. But as per public health guidance

This is a horrible situation and I think the new variant is definitely more contagious and is causing issues with hospital acquired covid infection spreading in wards.

Both my parents died last week in a care home of Covid. The home had been completely clear, no hospital transfers, no visitors, no agency staff, regular testing, it still got in, presumably with a member of staff. Half of the residents died. I am afraid it is the nature of the disease and it's mortality within the elderly.

We have more elderly than at any point in history, due in no small part to better healthcare.

Those old people do fall though, again it is part and parcel. There are support services in place, fall clinics, who give full x- Ray's to monitor osteoporosis, and risk assessments. Clinics giving out walking aids and exercise plans. DM had it all, but didn't take any of the recommendations. She did fall a few times, but also because she was still wearing high heels!

On isolation pods OP, the simple answer is that there would be no space. Capacity is already reduced to beds being distanced beyond what they would usually be. If you implemented isolation for all Covid patients we would be turning away thousands of patients.

My DM knows 2 people who caught Covid in hospital and died. She is terrified of falling (has a history of breaking bones in falls) and is not even leaving her flat for shopping/ exercise. She says it is local knowledge that you will get COVID if you go to hospital.

@AcornAutumn

OP I am sorry for your losses.

My late father worked in hospitals, infectious disease being a specialty area for him.

Infection control in hospitals has long been an issue, but the first thing I noticed, all the people I know who were hospitalised with covid, were on open bays. All the pandemic planning seems to have bern ignored and patients are exposed to higher viral load.

They pay for stunts like the Nightingale but not having proper isolation pods in hospitals - there are precious few.

I don't watch the news any more but hearing that they allow film crews in gives me the rage - a big infection control issue.

Nosocomial transmission is a major factor. My local MP is normally good at replying but has given me no response at all about this.

Also, we know that SAGE didn't understand carers work in more than one place. There's not enough actual experience on the advisory committees.

That said, Whitty will certainly know more but it's all politics and money now. The profiteering from this situation is shocking and somehow, no one seems to care.

I'm sorry for the rant, and sorry again for your losses.

How interesting about your dad. Thanks for sharing. I do sorry that the shielded are even more vulnerable for being shielded than mixing as whatever their normal was.

I hope your dad would agree with me that our immune systems are meant to switch on and off as we meet up with what it perceives as danger.
A shielded person living in a rarefied environment might find they end up with an inefficient immune system ..I’m not a doctor, you can tell, does that sound logical?

Have we done ,ore harm to people by shielding them, rather than just protecting them.

It’s true about carers. My son is a carer and goes into about 20 homes a day. Then comes home to his sons , one works in McDonald’s, one at uni, one at school. His wife supports her father and is in and out of the supermarkets and shops for the family.
I saw a comment from an obviously frightened disabled person, saying carers should almost keep themselves shielded so they could attend to her and keep her safe.
It doesn’t work like that.

I need to read about nosocomial transmission

Sadly I've experienced very poor infection control in hospitals in non-covid times.

Nurses wearing gloves then touching door handles etc before carrying out procedures. Going from one patient to the next without changing gloves etc. And on open wards you are often less than a metre away from the person in the next bed with only a flimsy curtain separating you.

I also hated that they would put food eg apples or unwrapped biscuits straight onto the hospital tray that goes over the bed but which never ever got cleaned. And give me cups of tea holding the cup by the rim that I would then put my mouth against.

I was in hospital for a long time and spent time every day using purell sanitiser to clean the things around me that never got cleaned e.g. I would wipe down my hospital tray with sanitiser, and the door handles that everyone coming into the room would touch and then touch me without washing their hands.

The hospital had a big problem with MRSA so you would think they would train the staff better on infection control.

Omg, this is just so sad.
In fact, it’s more than that it’s outrageous about what is going on.
I’ve no words . I’m speechless

My mum went into the local isolation hospital over 50 years ago
She had such a severe diahorrea and sickness bug she lost two stone in two weeks.
She was barrier nursed and given just water and natural yougort.
I was 14 and just nh to school to look after her. I thought she was going to die
It was an awful time . She was only 37
Thankfully she got well and never had a repeat occurrence..
Goodness knows where she got it from ..but the nursing care she received was second to none.
Her bed was in like a little pod with glass floor to ceiling. We could only see her through the glass.

They were probably left over from TB that went through the population right up to the late 60s

Stayed off school

@Catsneezies

Sadly I've experienced very poor infection control in hospitals in non-covid times.

Nurses wearing gloves then touching door handles etc before carrying out procedures. Going from one patient to the next without changing gloves etc. And on open wards you are often less than a metre away from the person in the next bed with only a flimsy curtain separating you.

I also hated that they would put food eg apples or unwrapped biscuits straight onto the hospital tray that goes over the bed but which never ever got cleaned. And give me cups of tea holding the cup by the rim that I would then put my mouth against.

I was in hospital for a long time and spent time every day using purell sanitiser to clean the things around me that never got cleaned e.g. I would wipe down my hospital tray with sanitiser, and the door handles that everyone coming into the room would touch and then touch me without washing their hands.

The hospital had a big problem with MRSA so you would think they would train the staff better on infection control.

It sounds like we need to go back to basics about how to do this and need education and training just as members of the public. We seem to have got lax and sloppy with regard to infections.

While our personal hygiene has probably improved greatly since the 50s in other areas we appear to be less vigilant.

Sorry for everyone's losses
This terrifies me.
I spent 6.5hrs in A&E with dds yesterday. Fortunately we were in a side room but we had contact with at least 12 different members of staff plus walking to ultrasound dept in addition to being at gp surgery earlier in the day.

It is truly terrifying how much of transmission is hospital related. My DH was exposed to a positive case in hospital, luckily he was fine but had to quarantine.

Very sorry OP.
Same happened to my OHS aunt just before Christmas. Tested negative when she went in, caught covid in there and died.

I’m so sorry to hear this.

I only hope that with a large proportion of healthcare staff having had one vaccine the chances of this terrible thing spreading in hospitals is reduced. It’s all very well people staying at home etc but I think it’s been underplayed the very large numbers of people, staff and patients, who caught it in hospital.