Nurseries - the thing people seem to overlook

[MoirasRoses]

Pulled this up from another post but all these people ‘I’m not sending my child to nursery because we shouldn’t’ .. or the pleas from nursery staff that non essential workers shouldn’t send their kids.

Fine, but why is no-one mentioning HOW MUCH nursery fees are and that no nursery appears to be offering to parents a payment break for not sending their kid in at the moment.

If I don’t send my because morally I don’t think I should, I lose £200 a week! It’s a huge portion of my wage. I can’t afford to throw that money away. If I pull her out, I’d lose my place & I need it for March when I go back to work after maternity. My friend asked our nursery if they’d offer a payment break, nope.

So hi, nursery owners & staff & those quick to judge .. maybe address this issue & you’d have a few less attendees. I appreciate nurseries are business & probably can’t afford to do this. So kinda stuck aren’t we.

I have noticed that the two services that MN says you must not use but you must pay for at the moment are childcare and domestic cleaners. I don't think that it's a coincidence that there is this attitude to services that are seen as used by women and that many people think those women really 'should' just be doing themselves. No one ever suggests that the right thing to do is to cancel any work you've got booked in with an electrician but to pay them just as if they'd done it anyway.

Parents and childcare providers need to work together to seek support from the government. Both sides will lose money they can't afford to unless the government provides financial support. Most private nurseries can't afford to stay open without parents paying as the funding rates are so low and parents who aren't working can't afford to send them in if not not receiving the service.

The childcare sector has been very poorly treated, especially as its currently seen as an essential service to keep the country going and parents of young children aren't being given support to keep children home if they want to without a financial hit.

I don't think that it's a coincidence that there is this attitude to services that are seen as used by women and that many people think those women really 'should' just be doing themselves

I think there’s a lot of truth in this. There’s an attitude of ‘women should just give up their two-bit jobs and pick up the slack’. No one’s calling for construction or manufacturing to be shut down, despite all the videos of workers travelling on packed Tube trains over the past few weeks.

Why, morally, shouldn't you send your child in?

If you are not prepared to pay they cannot survive so you couid leave and your place go to someone else?

If your nursery is telling you not to send child in if you don't have to, then address that with them? Not all nurseries are saying this btw.

I don’t disagree with you or any of the points made here (e.g nurseries/cleaners vs electricians).

But I don’t understand your point:

If I don’t send my because morally I don’t think I should, I lose £200 a week! It’s a huge portion of my wage

In practice, you’re spending that £200 a week whether you send her or not. So you’re not ‘losing’ it in the sense that you’re spending more if you don’t send her. It’s a choice between ‘spend this £200 on a service I actually received or choose to accept that I’m spending my £200 on nothing as my preference is to keep my daughter at home’, isn’t it?

Or does not sending her mean you can’t work - ie you’re losing wages too?

Otherwise - while I completely understand your point about whether the nurseries should make people pay - it’s not really a matter of losing £200, but whether you’re happy to spend that £200 but receive nothing for it, because you think that’s the safer option.

Spot on! I would be sending my little one in if they were at nursery for this exact reason.

When my little one starts nursery in September it will cost us over £800 a month but it’s worth it because of the amount I earn and the fact that I want to build my career. I would not be willing to have my little one at home to try and juggle work and childcare while still paying nursery fees why would or should anyone have to pay out for a service they are not getting? If nursery’s don’t want children in give parents a break from paying fees and if they can’t afford to the government need to step up and contribute.

@TempsPerdu

I don't think that it's a coincidence that there is this attitude to services that are seen as used by women and that many people think those women really 'should' just be doing themselves

I think there’s a lot of truth in this. There’s an attitude of ‘women should just give up their two-bit jobs and pick up the slack’. No one’s calling for construction or manufacturing to be shut down, despite all the videos of workers travelling on packed Tube trains over the past few weeks.

Or just do it around their job - how hard can that be, right? I find it astonishing that lots of childcare workers on MN - who must be fully aware of how demanding nursery-aged children are! - are disdainful of parents sending in their children but working from home, and I assume they must think that working from home is more or less the same thing as not working.

My nursery hasn't charged me all the time my son has been off.

They are linked to a charity - I think that probably helps. They don't have overheads like rent as they own the building.

I've been off on maternity leave with a now 6 month old. I didn't want to risk bringing anything home to her, or risk our son's or our health. I had planned to drastically cut down his hours, and keep paying to keep a place open for him at least for a couple of mornings a week, but I didn't need to.

@Hardbackwriter

I have noticed that the two services that MN says you must not use but you must pay for at the moment are childcare and domestic cleaners. I don't think that it's a coincidence that there is this attitude to services that are seen as used by women and that many people think those women really 'should' just be doing themselves. No one ever suggests that the right thing to do is to cancel any work you've got booked in with an electrician but to pay them just as if they'd done it anyway.

100% this. It’s internalised misogyny.

Incidentally I'm currently not sending my DS to nursery but paying for it, but that's because I've made the choice because I don't want to increase my risk of catching COVID at the moment (I'm 37 weeks pregnant and have just started mat leave). I obviously think it's completely right I pay in that situation. I think it's quite different to be told that I shouldn't use nursery as an altruistic gesture, to protect the staff, but that I should still pay for it.

Our nursery are not charging if you don't send your child in. They're letting you do week by week but to be fair are extremely relaxed and flexible, not like some of the strict regimes I hear about on here!

I also agree that there is definitely an attitude that WFH is the same being off work.

I'm not getting this from my lovely nursery, but family members definitely seem to think that I shouldn't need childcare since I'm at home, and when I do use it I'm getting some lovely child free time.

There's definitely an assumption that working from home isn't really work and also that women's jobs aren't really important (either for the household income or for society/the economy).

I think it's illustrative of the way we all live in bubbles. I don't know anyone who is furloughed for example as all my friends wfh.

All nurseries aren’t the same, which is part of the problem, and they are stuck between being a public service through funded places and private business through paying places.

Of course you shouldn’t have to pay for not using a service, but it should be recognised that staff are at risk because children are often asymptotic.

My own nursery which is a charity, is all funded, we are open 15 hours a week, term time only. Half my children have decided they aren’t coming back for a bit, but their places are there for them when they want to come back.
By keeping my nursery open we are using 9 key workers spaces at school. All my current parents are sahm, the few that were working are now going to their child minder full time as they weren’t keen on sharing settings.

I’m sure mine isn’t alone in offering this type of service, and wonder if keeping services like mine open it doesn’t really feel like lock down. But it does feel like keeping services like mine open will keep schools closed longer.

So true, brilliantly put 👏👏👏

Whoops I was trying to reply to @Hardbackwriter

If I don’t send my because morally I don’t think I should, I lose £200 a week!

Do you not want to send your child to nursery OP? But your not wanting to pay £200 is that correct?

But the. They are allowed to open and are not eligible for any financial help - therefore you'd want them to save your spot and just lose that income.

But the. They are allowed to open and are not eligible for any financial help

This is the crux of it for me (parent of a 3yo, working, keeping her off nursery while paying for it).

The government really ought to have addressed nurseries outright rather than mumbling about early years and leaving parents and childcare settings to muddle through. Either they're all open because they are magically safe for all, or they're shut but with compensation to these nurseries (mainly private businesses) to see them through. And it reflects a wider fudge around furlough now/WFH generally - it's been left up to individual companies to implement and, lo and behold, they're interested in the bottom line.

I'm very much camp "keep them home if at all possible". I have SAH friends sending their kids in, heavily pregnant friends, people whose work schedules are mercurial, and frankly to me it seems akin to sending my kid for a swim in raw sewage. But I've no doubt that for others whose nursery bills are higher than mine it's a "well I'm paying anyway and they haven't been closed so..." decision.

In the 1st lockdown when nurseries were keyworker children only, they could claim the funded hours for all the kids whether they were in or not. I was shielding an furloughed, so kept DD home after the time she should have gone back. Our nursery let me reduce her hours to funded only, which they claimed while she wasn't there, to save me money. When I came off furlough I was able to increase her hours back to her full hours. That wasn't guaranteed, but nursery were fairly sure it would be ok, and it worked out alright.
This lockdown I think the claiming funded hours rules are different. Nursery have asked if parents who can be flexible can let them know in case they have staff off isolating and struggle with ratios, but they've asked that kids still go if parents are happy to send them, because they need the money! (they don't charge if kids aren't in, so long as you give a week's notice, which I've learnt from Mumsnet is unusual!)

I own a day nursery. As a PP has said, the current lockdown is different from the previous one as we are being asked to remain open for all children. Acknowledgement is needed that nursery staff are at risk due to the close, prolonged contact with children, with minimal PPE. If a child falls down, we can’t say “Wait for me to gown up before I comfort you” - which will consist of a child breathing, climbing and crying all over you. It is scary.
That said, as we are open for all children, we are not eligible for any support. If a parent chooses to keep their child away due to anxiety over the virus, there is very little we can do to get this income replaced. Nurseries already run on very tight margins, so simply don’t have the capacity to give a payment break. It is not a case of being grabby and wanting money for nothing....our overheads remain almost the same, even if a child doesnt attend. We are limited in how we can use furlough too. If there was more government support, then payment breaks / reduced fees might be viable - but for us, sadly, the way things are, our hands are tied