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Can schools actually take any measures against parents who fail at home-schooling

76 replies

emptydreamer · 21/01/2021 16:32

I have a couple of friends who have received messages from the school that online attendance / registers will be monitored and failure to engage will be escalated accordingly. My children's school also chased on a couple of overdue tasks and online lessons (both KS1), hinting that there will be consequences for not coping well.

This seems to be a complete u-turn to the previous messages from same schools - mental health is important, we're in this together, just read, bake, play and you'll be fine etc.

My question is whether schools actually can take any measures against parents who are late with submitting work / struggle with organising online attendance etc.

I don't want this to turn into a teacher bashing thread, I'd probably explode myself if I had children at home AND I had to teach other people's children at the same time as well. But it does feel like maybe the guidance for schools has changed at the top level?

OP posts:
MrGruWeLoveYou · 21/01/2021 19:26

You cannot be fined. I do wish people would listen. In my experience schools are very keen to threaten parents with fines even though they can't issue them themselves and usually don't have a full understanding of the law. The law is suspended at the moment. YOU CANNOT BE FINED!!! Whatever nonsense the school says.

MrGruWeLoveYou · 21/01/2021 19:29

@recluse perhaps that particular tutor needs to stick to tutoring not advising on education law

emptydreamer · 21/01/2021 19:31

@MrGruWeLoveYou

You cannot be fined. I do wish people would listen. In my experience schools are very keen to threaten parents with fines even though they can't issue them themselves and usually don't have a full understanding of the law. The law is suspended at the moment. YOU CANNOT BE FINED!!! Whatever nonsense the school says.
I am not concerned about fines as such - even prepared to pay in advance if someone sends me a bill - I am more concerned about social services / allegations of neglect. Because in the normal circumstances, what I am doing now IS probably neglect - we are eating quite basic oven meals, the house is a mess, education is not prioritised and the screen time reaches a ridiculous % of the day.
OP posts:
MrGruWeLoveYou · 21/01/2021 19:32

@emptydreamer that's not neglect.

SansaSnark · 21/01/2021 19:33

Yes, guidance from the top has changed- last lockdown, the curriculum was suspended, and schools were under no pressure to perform or ensure attendance.

Some parents were unhappy with the quality/quantity of work provided, so the government have now set out minimum expectations for schools, and said there will be Ofsted inspections etc. This means schools are under far more pressure and some of that is passed on to parents/kids.

Schools basically face a few issues:

  1. A high level of non engagement probably won't be looked at favourably by Ofsted.

  2. If they've got say, 50% of children engaging fully, 25% doing some bits, and some doing nothing, those doing nothing will be massively behind when the school goes back and the school has to cater for them. Behind doesn't matter if the whole class is equally behind, but if students are individually behind that is a problem for them and therefore the school.

  3. There is an expectation to safeguard pupils and monitor attendance. So if you are not engaging at all- not just not submitting work, the school do have to chase as a safeguarding risk. If they can't get into contact with you over a period of time, this may eventually escalate. There wouldn't be consequences as such if your children are safe and well, but you might e.g. have a visit from a member of staff or the EWO.

It does sound really tough, OP- where is the children's father in all of this? Can he help at all?

Elephant4 · 21/01/2021 19:34

@MyCatShopsAtAldi your post made me laugh because you are describing my 14 year old. He also could distract himself in an empty room.

TheRuleofStix · 21/01/2021 19:35

Social services are sinking under a sea of desperate cases - they don’t have time to worry about kids only getting oven meals.

Unfortunately OFSTED has decided to start judging us this time round on children’s progress so yes sadly we are under a lot more pressure. I’m having to push back against pressure being put on some kids in my class who just can’t access on line learning because they’re too far behind and won’t cooperate with their very stressed parents Sad.

I’m so sorry you’re finding it so hard.

Elephant4 · 21/01/2021 19:36

It’s even worse now though that there’s the internet to get lost in.

emptydreamer · 21/01/2021 19:38

It does sound really tough, OP- where is the children's father in all of this? Can he help at all?
Unfortunately, he decided to move ~5 hours away, and not involved now almost at all - very busy.

OP posts:
Elephant4 · 21/01/2021 19:39

@TheRuleofStix

What will schools do this time with so much disparity when kids go back?

ineedaholidaynow · 21/01/2021 19:41

It will be a struggle for schools to get children back on track. For the younger children as well it won’t just be the academic side but social skills etc will be behind too.

TheRuleofStix · 21/01/2021 19:43

@Elephant4 I really don’t know Sad. I mean we’ve always taught a wide variety of abilities in every class so it’s not like we don’t have experience of it. But obviously none of us have ever dealt with a situation like this so sadly we’ll just have to learn how to deal with it as we go.

It’s a desperate situation and I just hope we go back as soon as.

emptydreamer · 21/01/2021 19:44

@TheRuleofStix

Social services are sinking under a sea of desperate cases - they don’t have time to worry about kids only getting oven meals.

Unfortunately OFSTED has decided to start judging us this time round on children’s progress so yes sadly we are under a lot more pressure. I’m having to push back against pressure being put on some kids in my class who just can’t access on line learning because they’re too far behind and won’t cooperate with their very stressed parents Sad.

I’m so sorry you’re finding it so hard.

I am sorry, I admit I was one of those parents who moaned (not publicly, to friends) about being completely ignored by the school during the spring lockdown. The current situation wasn't what I had in mind though.

It does seem like that dissatisfaction had spectacularly misfired in a very idiotic and bureaucratic way.

OP posts:
EnemyOfEducationNo1 · 21/01/2021 19:46

I'm a teacher.
I'm so busy teaching secondary students live to timetable that my own kids are left to it. The eldest (KS2) is pretty conscientious and gets on with it, but not to a great standard, and is not progressing as there is no feedback from me.
The KS1 child is doing the bare minimum, and the Reception child is just addicted to his kindle and refuses to try any school stuff - and any spare minutes we have is spent trying to coax him into reading just one word, write just one letter.
We are all just doing the best we can.

Squashpocket · 21/01/2021 19:48

@MyCatShopsAtAldi 😂 sounds exactly like my 4 year old. I have resorted to bare-faced bribery 🤦‍♀️

StacySoloman · 21/01/2021 19:54

@emptydreamer "we are eating quite basic oven meals, the house is a mess, education is not prioritised and the screen time reaches a ridiculous % of the day."
Come on, you know that's not neglect by any stretch! Plenty of families live quite happily like that, kids are fed, loved, house is safe.
It might not be Mumsnet piano lessons and quinoa but it's nowhere near social services radar.
They've got enough to deal with with actual abuse and neglect eg children experiencing significant harm.

MyCatShopsAtAldi · 21/01/2021 19:55

@Squashpocket, thank God it’s not just mine. I feel like the world’s worst parent. Though I’m quietly muttering under my breath at the school - they’ve started collages in art. Not draw a picture, use a crayon and compare with a pencil crayon, or whatever - no, collages. Which requires materials, glue (glue!), scissors and full parental involvement. Not exactly an activity where you can set them up and leave them to roll with it, is it?!

I should stress I’m not normally a lady of leisure but am currently on maternity leave. Back to work next week so he’ll be in key worker provision for three days and frankly I cannot wait. I just feel like this is putting him off learning for life.

IndecentFeminist · 21/01/2021 19:56

We haven't had anything marked or fed back on yet, so I'd be surprised

MyCatShopsAtAldi · 21/01/2021 19:56

Oh and we’ve tried bribery (if you can think of it and it’s legal, we’ve probably tried it..). At the sign of any carrot, he acts up massively to see whether we will hold the boundary, and then when said bribe/carrot is withdrawn, has the most almighty outburst. So better not to offer bribes in this house in the first place at the moment but I wish we could!

Bonkerz · 21/01/2021 19:58

I email my sons teacher as I work from home as a childminder and didn't have a suitable work space for my son except the hallway. Her online live teaching lessons were awkward for us due to noise etc she was already sending the work via teams and tbh DS was getting bored being talked through the sheets.
He now gets the work printed first thing and is usually completed by 11am. I email his teacher all his work and she marks it. So far his work has been brilliant.
He then helps me cook lunch and he plays with his guinea pigs before having a quiet afternoon playing games etc.
His anxiety levels have reduced and he's much calmer.

user1174147897 · 21/01/2021 19:59

what I am doing now IS probably neglect - we are eating quite basic oven meals, the house is a mess, education is not prioritised and the screen time reaches a ridiculous % of the day

That's not neglect, pandemic or not. Did you seriously write that with a straight face? Come on.

emptydreamer · 21/01/2021 20:03

@user1174147897

what I am doing now IS probably neglect - we are eating quite basic oven meals, the house is a mess, education is not prioritised and the screen time reaches a ridiculous % of the day

That's not neglect, pandemic or not. Did you seriously write that with a straight face? Come on.

Well... yes. A 5 year old left to their own devices for the most part of the day outside meal times and compulsory online schooling is probably emotional neglect, no?
OP posts:
StacySoloman · 21/01/2021 20:13

Er... no Hmm "My 5 year old entertains themselves while I work in the same house" is in no way neglect.

Titsywoo · 21/01/2021 20:17

I hope they can't as there are too many individual circumstances! Our circumstances for example are that we have 2 teens and both DH and I are having to work long hours at home. We have devices for everyone, the kids have their own spaces and their own desks, they both have 100% attendance when at school and both do all their work on time and get good grades when at school.

This situation has been very difficult and we are doing our best. 16yo DD is getting up and going to registration and doing her work on time with no input from us. DS is 13 and autistic (but with no EHCP as some would describe him as very high functioning) but he struggles with doing school work at home (even homework normally is a battle), forgets to attend registration or online lessons and isn't doing his best work at all (nor necessarily doing it during the school hours which is what is expected this time around). We are trying our very best and I am running up to his room regularly to check him and remind him of things but I am working from 8am until bedtime as is DH (we both have jobs and also run a business on the side which has gone mad in the last 6 months). It is very stressful and the kids are both unhappy as it is with missing friends etc so I'm not going to spend half my day arguing with DS. The work is getting done even if it happens by 9pm and if the school have an issue with it they can quite frankly fuck off. Hopefully they don't though and are being understanding (no idea as I haven't heard anything!).

Bananabuddy3 · 21/01/2021 20:30

@2021hastobebetter the solution for the making of the chicken curry is surely to buy a cheap ready meal one - slop it in a frying pan and take a picture? Grin maybe a chopped vegetable on top for good measure.....

The problem is it’s not the schools who give out sanctions and fine - taking the issue higher is the mandatory process pre COVID of reporting it to the powers that be, ie the local authority for your school. Heads have a legal obligation in normal times to report unauthorised and frequent absences, or holidays taken in term time. The fines come from your LA, not the school.

Now I’m not sure exactly how it’s working “high up” for those families not doing the work for whatever reason it is. I’ve got a whopping great tick chart going for stuff coming in. I’m under instruction from my head to check in with parents if I haven’t received anything for a week unless I know otherwise. I would say about 60% in my class are submitting the majority of work this time, a good portion of the rest are focusing on their maths and literacy and about 10% I’m seeing zilch. Yes, I’m under instruction to keep an eye on them - not pressurise them, but enquire. I have to say all of these 10% are like so many on here - two working parents who aren’t key workers but still have to work.

I wish Ofsted would back off for a year. It wouldn’t surprise me if many Good and Outstanding schools slip a level, because unfortunately Ofsted like to focus on how many children are achieving or exceeding average levels rather than true value added and it’s plainly obvious that standards will dip and be totally mixed across the board and Ofsted won’t consider why. Or care. I’m also expecting to hear of lots of teachers in disciplinary trouble and HTs being forced to resign due to average scores dropping. This is part of the huge battle.

Staff meeting in September, after some children had been off for 6 months. I remember it well - assessments had been done (that should have been done end of summer term) and the Deputy turns to different years groups and says “standards have slipped....why? Can you explain this?”
Sadly this is how Ofsted, government, many senior management staff (who aren’t physically in classrooms) are going to think, which makes the situation near on impossible.

Parents can’t juggle schooling and work in many cases (bloody well done those of you who are), the curriculums not suspended and the expectations of schools has not changed (ie provide a full education for all), there’s thousands of different and perfectly reasonable opinions on just how much work is enough and how it should be delivered, some children complete 3 hours of work in 1 and some take 6 hours instead of 3, teachers are under instruction from powers that have no real idea, so have to push it through regardless of circumstances for everyone in their class.......mix that altogether and voila, we have this lovely situation.

To answer the original question, I honestly can’t see a lack of ability to carry out the online learning leading to a sanction. A welfare check from school perhaps and I think that’s perfectly reasonable, for some children this is not a safe situation.