Why can't people vaccinate themselves?

[DemolitionBarbie]

There's probably a very good reason I don't know about.

I had to inject myself twice daily after giving birth a while ago. It wasn't that hard. Why can't people inject themselves with the vaccine, if it would speed things up? Is there a health reason, or does it need to be injected a certain way, or is there less capacity to make self-injection pen things?

@OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea

Let's start with the fact that vials are multiple dose and go from there.

Even if the vaccine was lovely and stable and didn't care about temperature or being transported by the time you've got someone to make up all the doses into separate syringes, taken the needle off, put a sterile cap on the syringe, packed it into a box with a clean needle, gone to your house, given you the info and got you to sign consent, taught you how to give an IM injection and how to deal with any anaphylaxis it might, just might, be more efficient to bring the person to the vaccine.

This.

I’m hoping the modified adenovirus vaccines might come in prefilled syringes eventually to make the process quicker, but can’t see how this will ever work for the frozen mRNA ones.

Oh gosh I hate needles, no way would I do myself (get the flu jab every year etc doesn’t put me off but I have to look away & do panic)

I’m hoping to travel to New York in November of this year. I’m then hoping to return to the uk via Queen Mary 2.

Now let’s just imagine I need to have had my vaccinations before I travel....(there’s already talk of people needing a vaccination before they can leave/enter the country)

oh yes, I definitely, absolutely did give myself the jab, I promise, fingers crossed

I see what you mean about the mass DIY injecting OP but no that wouldn’t work unless the vaccine was subcutaneous. I like your out of the box thinking though!

To those saying it comes in a vial so it wouldn’t work that’s not quite true. In most places the vials are being broken down into prefilled syringes centrally before going out to the vaccination centres. One of my friends is in charge of this process at her hospital. When I went for mine the nurse was was sitting with what looked like a punch bowl of prefilled injections in front of her ready to go.

I expect some people would sell their dose on eBay for a lot of £££

100% this

Israel has been.... not allowing self-vaccination but massively loosening up the rules and particulars around vaccination, which is part of the reason why they have been so fast. Their figures are already dropping and as far as I know nothing "bad" has happened as a result of lightening up on the rules.

"Some may feel its not ideal to administer a vaccination in a makeshift tent clinic without a doctor checking and updating medical files. Well, it's not ideal to have thousands of people dying every day, and millions unemployed. It is far more important to vaccinate people than to be 100% sure that this is recorded in their medical file instantly." www.linkedin.com/pulse/vaccine-roll-out-israels-circumstances-arent-special-zvi-schreiber/?fbclid=IwAR1vhfye1UuhxM5ZHFVYfmOZuxw-NA9B5YerX6cIFmPqCLNbyWltU_r0nUk

@Hangingover

I expect some people would sell their dose on eBay for a lot of £££

100% this

I can imagine pressure being put on very low income people by those with money. It would be too tempting for some.

@Missannelliot

I see what you mean about the mass DIY injecting OP but no that wouldn’t work unless the vaccine was subcutaneous. I like your out of the box thinking though!

To those saying it comes in a vial so it wouldn’t work that’s not quite true. In most places the vials are being broken down into prefilled syringes centrally before going out to the vaccination centres. One of my friends is in charge of this process at her hospital. When I went for mine the nurse was was sitting with what looked like a punch bowl of prefilled injections in front of her ready to go.

Good god I hope not! The syringes are supposed to be drawn up one at a time and given immediately. It can’t be stored in the syringes.

Apart from the reasons listed above, if you administer your own sub cutaneous medications you have to be given instruction by an hcp first - usually doing the first one with them present. In that case, even if you could do IM yourself, they might as well give it themselves. Yes you have to go back for a second dose but that’ll be better than having to deal with all the used sharps in peoples houses that probably won’t be disposed of properly.

There’s always too much risk or people not doing it correctly - they may decide to do it sub cutaneously, drink it, snort it, whatever. They had to put a “do not eat” warning in those packets of silica gel you find in shoe boxes. This implies someone has been daft enough to eat it which doesn’t fill me with hope that all people would manage to give a vaccine to themselves properly.

It's an interesting idea in fact. Lots of people could vaccinate themselves at the same time under the supervision of one doctor. This could make things even faster.

@Kokeshi123

That's a great article. Thank you.

Multiple dose vaccine
Needs to go in the deltoid muscle IM
Risk of anaphylaxis so drugs such as adrenaline are available when the vaccine is given
People might sell on e-bay?
Possibility of cold chain error great

Just a few reasons not to give it yourself.

@Missannelliot EpiPens are IM

Just a few reasons not to give it yourself.

I think those are reasons not to do it without a doctor present. But a lot of people could vaccinate themselves in the presence of one doctor potentially which could be very efficient if done well

Epipens are not designed for deltoid use.
The syringes are drawn up at the vaccination site, they are not pre-filled.

NHS staff could definitely do their own families.

I think the AZ Oxford vaccine is far less risky in terms of anaphylaxis.

Have you met some members of the public OP? Half of them can't even wear a facemask properly!

Seriously, in answer to your question:

1. People are likely to not store the vaccine properly.
2. People may not follow correct administration technique and administer in subcutaneous tissue instead of intramuscularly, or not alcohol wipe injection site beforehand etc.
3. Physically awkward for people to bend to the right position to administer an intramuscular injection.
4. Unable to do anaphylaxis monitoring afterwards.
5. Most people don't have facilities to dispose of used needles at home.
6. No guarantee people have actually given themselves the vaccine even if they say they have.
7. Logistically would be a nightmare and hugely expensive to deliver a vaccine to everyone that needs one.

Again can someone explain why the vaccine needs to go in the Deltoid muscle ,I have given countless IM injections when I was a mental health nurse ,but mainly top of the buttock or mid thigh.

@x2boys

Again can someone explain why the vaccine needs to go in the Deltoid muscle ,I have given countless IM injections when I was a mental health nurse ,but mainly top of the buttock or mid thigh.

That’s the route specified in the authorisation, presumably based on trials. Vaccines are usually given in the deltoid aren’t they?

For all those saying it would make sense to diy, try it. Get a pen and try and hit your deltoid (top of arm). It’s not that easy to hit the right spot.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss yes vaccines usually given in the deltoid compared to other I’m injections which are given buttock/mid thigh.

@x2boys

Again can someone explain why the vaccine needs to go in the Deltoid muscle ,I have given countless IM injections when I was a mental health nurse ,but mainly top of the buttock or mid thigh.

I thought intramuscular injections need a big muscle so either the deltoid or one of the ones you mention. I would assume they standardised the testing regime on the deltoid because it's a lot faster and easier to do than having to have people drop their pants. With huge numbers and time of the essence (especially with the Pfizer) that would surely be pragmatic?

Storage, possible reactions etc, you need someone trained there. Out of interest, what did you have to inject yourself with?

Fair enough @ErrolTgeDragon ,just wondering,btw we used to inject in the very top bit of the buttock so there was no need for someone to drop their trousers just move there clothes slightly.