How are different parts of the world so different?!

[JC17fj74]

How are we all dealing with Covid so differently right now?
So far I've seen friends in Australia enjoying the 'normal' things in life such a beach days, meals out and drinks and cocktails in bars. Friends in America dining out in restaurants etc
And here we are in full shitty lockdown with no end date in sight.
Why are we so different over her?!
It's like the rest of the world has started to get back to normal and we are stuck in this nightmare 😫

Actually, while we're on the subject of international comparisons, can anyone name any other country where following the school holidays, the government ordered children back to school for a single day before announcing that evening that schools would close due to Covid?

Also Portugal does have a lower pop density 111/per sq km as opposed to England's 275/per sq km which with an infectious disease I would suggest is more relevant than wearing masks outside..

Do you have any scientific basis for suggesting that @GetOffYourHighHorse or is it just a case of preferring to believe that rather than contemplating the possibility that maybe the Portuguese government might have handled the Covid pandemic better than ours has?

'is it just a case of preferring to believe that rather than contemplating the possibility that maybe the Portuguese government might have handled the Covid pandemic better than ours has?'

If the population is less dense there is less transmission, you do know how it's spread dont you? Say for example the terrible time London is having as opposed to less populated areas in the UK. That's my 'scientific basis'. I find it bizarre that anyone would suggest wearing masks outside made the slightest difference.

@LilyPond2
It's all about population density until someone points out a country with similar population density that has done better, then about age of population until someone points out a country with an aged population that has done better, then it's about it being summer until.....you get the idea?!

Bozo is doing the best he can in an UNPRECEDENTED situation so please shut up with your logic and facts FFS

@LilyPond2

Also Portugal does have a lower pop density 111/per sq km as opposed to England's 275/per sq km which with an infectious disease I would suggest is more relevant than wearing masks outside..

Do you have any scientific basis for suggesting that @GetOffYourHighHorse or is it just a case of preferring to believe that rather than contemplating the possibility that maybe the Portuguese government might have handled the Covid pandemic better than ours has?

In what way do you think Portugal 'handled the pandemic better'? Which specific measures did it take that neighbouring Spain, with a case load similar to Britain's, did not take?

Attributing the spread of a highly contagious microscopic virus to govt 'handling' seems simplistic to me.

'It's all about population density until someone points out a country with similar population density that has done better'

It's actually very complex with lots of variables. One thing I'd bet a fiver on is mask wearing outside has any impact whatsoever 🙄.

One thing I'd bet a fiver on is mask wearing outside has any impact whatsoever 🙄.
Do you want to say that again in English?

Another reason Australia came out of this reasonably well, and of course no-one is out of it yet, is that health is entirely in the hands of individual states, not central government. They are are still closing their borders to NSW while the new outbreak calms down.

While this is speculation, had it been up to the PM, I think we'd be fucked. He definitely put economy first all the way. As it was he threatened private schools with withdrawing funds if they closed, then offered them bribes to open up. They gave him the finger. He spent the rest of the time sniping at the Victorian premier for no other reason than he was Labour. The actions of LNP premiers received no comment.

As others have said, it's hard to isolate any one action as nailing it in containing the pandemic, but in the case of the English government, the lies, evasions, ignoring of own scientists' advice and general too too late have undermined public confidence.

@Sarahlou63

Here in Portugal (death rate 870/mill as opposed to UK 1311/mill) we have worn masks inside and out for months, no exceptions. We are now on a strict two week (rolling) lockdown although I believe schools are still open. The government has acted quickly, decisively and with the support of the majority of the people throughout.

Portugual currently has one of the highest death rates per 100,000 population in Europe at 1.58 compared to 0.64 average and well above the current 1.2 in the UK.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'We are not Australia perhaps take a look at some of our nearer European neighbours Spain France Italy and even Germany they must all have shit governments too'

Exactly. It is so tedious to read the 'it's all Johnson's fault' crap when Scotland, Wales and NI (devolved administrations doing their own thing) are in the same tragic boat and yes, Europe too.

I know mn isn't renowned for critical thinking but really, let's think about demographics population size, geographic location (isolated anyone?) and the all important population density.

Could not agree more. There are some on here who cannot think further than blaming Boris for anything and everything without engaging a single brain cell. Of course there are things the government have got wrong but it is simplistic to blame them for everything when other countries are also having problems

@echt

Another reason Australia came out of this reasonably well, and of course no-one is out of it yet, is that health is entirely in the hands of individual states, not central government. They are are still closing their borders to NSW while the new outbreak calms down.

While this is speculation, had it been up to the PM, I think we'd be fucked. He definitely put economy first all the way. As it was he threatened private schools with withdrawing funds if they closed, then offered them bribes to open up. They gave him the finger. He spent the rest of the time sniping at the Victorian premier for no other reason than he was Labour. The actions of LNP premiers received no comment.

As others have said, it's hard to isolate any one action as nailing it in containing the pandemic, but in the case of the English government, the lies, evasions, ignoring of own scientists' advice and general too too late have undermined public confidence.

Agree entirely. We would be in the UK/USA position if Scomo had had any say. Best thing for us has been everyone ignoring him

Interesting that up thread someone asked how other countries are doing, I answered and a couple of people hackles have gone into porcupine mode. Yes, our cases have gone through the roof and our hospitals are overwhelmed BUT there is little dissent for the rules and everyone (in the main - the odd tourist is...odd in seeming to think that rules don't apply to them) is doing their best to support each other. I am very happy with the way the Portuguese are handling a difficult situation.

Has the UK had the worst death rate in the world?
We're number 5 on the list but the countries above us with higher death rates have far far higher populations than us.

Actually looking at this I think we're number 2?? USA

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?

Why???
All the countries worst affected seem to all have done too little too late with low tolerance for strictly enforced compliance to rules.
Makes me wonder if actually those countries we judged, that really came down very hard on their citizens were actually right for once. They certainly seem to be enjoying more freedom than we are now.
Who knows.

I had a quick look at the graphs for Europe. Our second wave started in late October and then flattened as it has done in many European countries. It was followed by a very steep growth which I suspect was due to the new variant.
It has been reported that this variant has seeded in Europe so we may well see a delayed increase in Europe as the new variant takes hold. The difference in the uk is that our vaccination programme is storming ahead and likely to have a significant effect on infection rates in the next month. Vaccinations are set to stall at the end of this month due to Pfizer increasing capacity but having to stall production to do so.

It's Complicated

I am interested in why countries like Japan with high population density and tony living spaces (and crammed public transport) have done so much better than Western countries.

One thing I do know about the Japanese is that they have a real sense of social responsibility and are less individualistic (selfish?) than e.g. the UK. For example, even in normal times people who have a cold wear a mask so as not to pass it onto anyone else. Over here a lot of people seem to regard mask wearing as akin to taking away their personal freedom, and don't seem to care about infecting other people as long as their own lives are disrupted as little as possible.

I have felt really depressed at times during this pandemic purely because a lot of what I have seen and heard and read about comes from a place of utter selfishness and disregard for others. It makes me despair of our society.

A big thing here in Melbourne was that our premier didn’t care about losing popularity doing the hard lockdown. There was a very vocal minority calling him Dictator Dan and Chairman Dan but he held the line. Regarding compliance to the regulations he said repeatedly “you might be sick of the virus but it’s not sick of you” and this stuck with people. We’re in a good position now but this could change in the blink of an eye and I think we’re all aware of not getting cocky.

@Catsneezies

I am interested in why countries like Japan with high population density and tony living spaces (and crammed public transport) have done so much better than Western countries.

One thing I do know about the Japanese is that they have a real sense of social responsibility and are less individualistic (selfish?) than e.g. the UK. For example, even in normal times people who have a cold wear a mask so as not to pass it onto anyone else. Over here a lot of people seem to regard mask wearing as akin to taking away their personal freedom, and don't seem to care about infecting other people as long as their own lives are disrupted as little as possible.

I have felt really depressed at times during this pandemic purely because a lot of what I have seen and heard and read about comes from a place of utter selfishness and disregard for others. It makes me despair of our society.

Japan has had experience with SARS and ongoing issues with TB. Their TB version of track and trace is experienced and easily replicated for Covid. Along side the more cultural differences they really know what they’re doing when it comes to infectious respiratory diseases.

That’s not to say they’ve sailed through this pandemic but they’re handling of it given their population demographics is laudable.

Dr John Campbell did an interesting report on Japan on his YouTube channel. He thinks cultural factors helped control the virus: mask acceptance and lots of habits like airing out rooms regularly. Plus bowing rather than handshakes.

Residential Care home sector for the elderly in Japan is a very different model than in UK. They have a lot more of their residential elderly either living in community but with family support, OR in much more hospital-type environments. They don't have a huge workforce of underpaid care workers in the same kinds of working patterns & conditions (including agency workers, or working across multiple venues where personal care is provided) in the patchwork way like most of Europe/USA.

Japan-HK-Singapore-Korea-Taiwan also have amazing track n trace. Wouldn't even be legal to have the same set up in EU/UK.

BunnyBoiler we are now number 1.

What an absolute tragedy for the families and an utter failure of government.

Every country has its own challenges dealing with covid 19. Asian countries might have more authoritarian governments and a more compliant population but also have multi-generational living and cramped living spaces- 8358 per Km2 for singapore vs 5701 per square km.

But what is the reason for UK having the highest death rate in the world? I had people blaming the UK's poor performance on ' cold weather', 'high population density' (most asian cities are far far more crowded), other countries peddling fake data( ok about china but what about japan and taiwan). Its like they are trying to find excuses for the government.

The UK is a wealthy developed country. Its not even in the top 10 countries in terms of ageing population- www.prb.org/which-country-has-the-oldest-population/. So why does it have the distinction of the highest covid death rate? what is it about us when thousands are dying everyday? I accept that we may not have the low infection rates of New Zealand or Taiwan but do we have to be the worst in the world?

We now have the world's highest death rate. www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-covid-death-rate-coronavirus-b1788817.html

• in previous post meant to say that london has a population density of 5701 per square km, far lower than asian cities like tokyo, Singapore, Seoul and HK.

@onlychildandhamster our death rate will be due to a number of factors including (but not limited to) we have an older population, we have high rates of obesity and associated comorbidities and we have chronic levels of vitamin D deficiency. It’s a bit of a perfect storm situation really. If we had a reprieve in one of those areas then maybe we’d be seeing lower rates.

Ultimately none of this is brand new news (every doctor I have met in the last decade through work advocates supplementing vitamin D) and should have been factored into our response. The populations general health isn’t robust enough for risk taking.