How are over 80s getting the virus?

[MummaBear4321]

PHE reported today that cases in all age groups decreased between the 1st and 10th of January, except for the over 80s. How is this age group still getting so many infections? They should be isolating/shielding surely, especially as their vaccine and protection is basically around the corner if not already in place? Is it professional carers bringing it from house to house? Are care homes still riddled with it (I thought with no visitors and proper hygiene they would have had less infections by now)? Is it that this age group are simply not complying with rules? Anyone know?

My dsis is a domiciliary carer, lots of over 80s and ecv etc. She is regularly attending homes of her service users where they regularly have family visiting, multiple families under the excuse of providing care to a vulnerable person. I fully understand why they may wish to see and provide care for their elderly, vulnerable relatives bit these relatives have 4 x care visits a day, so certainly don't need family visits on a daily basis which dsis saya is happening, especially with no masks/ventilation etc.

It's not only putting their relative at risk it also puts every other person on that run at risk as if dsis gets it she will expose everyone, plus dsis family and her dp has MS.

Over 80s catch it because total shielding is not possible for 10 months. My great uncle has had dental issues and needed new glasses, and my great aunt had to take the cat to the vet, had a gas leak and a flood.

Also 0ver 65s are the age group least likely to self isolate properly or even at all when they have symptoms or have contact with someone with symptoms according to the UCL behavioural study

Carers, care homes and hospitals, and a few - like in any other segment of society - are just not obeying the rules.

My ILs ( In their 70s) caught it from her sister as they went for a meal in the house on Boxing Day. Mils sister and husband both coughing but ‘they said it was only a cold ‘ 🙄.
They caught it from letting kids and grandchildren in over Xmas to open their presents and they had caught it from cases at primary school.
All ended up having covid over new year and mil and fil left the house for the first time today to walk round the block and are still not well.

My parents are like @Lottie4 - dad gets the papers every day and the bus most days including to the vaccine centre when Dh ( cab driver ) offered a lift
Mum goes shopping all the time as there’s an anti covid forcefield around Waitrose and M&S

Hey I play by the rules, go to work come back. Don't visit family, too far away, only go to the supermarket when need to.

Because it is apparently A ok to have an 89 year old in hospital for 6 weeks and counting and not vaccinate them and relying on some sort of covid force field to prevent anyone on the ward getting ill.

Time will tell if she has also caught it.

Christmas visiting, care homes, carers/bubble visiting, medical appointments, even going out to get vaccine. Any contact is a risk.

Someone I know works in a care home. All the staff were put on a coach, and driven to a hospital full of receptionists, patients, doctors etc, an hour away, to have their vaccines at the end of December, and then back on the same coach. Not surprisingly, there is now an outbreak at the home. How idiotic is that?

I do think that careworkers are being 'blamed' a lot for things. If your elderly relative gets infected, and you 'blame' it on their careworker, then how about you do the care instead. Careworkers are working in difficult jobs, putting themselves and their families, at risk every day with this. And a lot of these private care homes don't even pay sick pay, so when the poor careworker inevitably comes down with the virus, to add insult to injury, they then can't pay their rent/bills. Honestly, it's reminiscent of the dark satanic mills - get your leg chopped off by the machinery and oh well that's it, you're in the poorhouse, the rest of us couldn't care less.

mabelmoo I am so sorry to hear that.

I've always been curious why this hasn't been explored more as an avenue to keep hospitalisations down.

I think sadly some carers are more lax in the community - my cousin is one of them, had her brother visit from Brighton with his two teenagers (we live in the west country) multiple times over previous lockdowns including staying overnight over Christmas. She's a palliative care nurse working exclusively with elderly people in their homes.

In the supermarkets, in the post office collecting their pension, from carers going into their houses?
Or, as has been said upthread, from hospital. That's how a relative of mine caught it - having been admitted following a fall.

My grandad is 80, he either caught it at the post office or the local co-op.
He owns his own business so is still working everyday.

We've had 4 staff cases where I work, no resident cases yet. We wear ppe, are careful etc, but ultimately we're still a risk because some have children in school so they can work, travel on public transport to get to work, need to go shopping for food, attend appointments etc.
Then you have other hcps that need to visit for medical reasons, to do dressings or insulin injections every day, to administer end of life meds, to take bloods or other tests that care assistants can't perform, doctors needing to physically examine people where a video call isn't sufficient. Paramedics responding to falls etc.
Then you have things that go wrong and need fixing like boilers and washing machines and even WiFi - essential for people to keep contact with their families.

Undertakes need to attend too.

All those people visit multiple settings, as well as have lives outside work.

Clients having hospital appointments, clients being admitted from the community or hospital, clients that are unable to test, Clients that are unable to wear masks or unable to understand about hand washing and sanitising, even with assistance (one of ours hates washing her hands and short of physical force which is wrong, there's not much else we can do)

And once it's in, it's in. Many dementia sufferers wander, and will do so even if they had a 1:1 staff member, physical or pharmaceutical restraint is the only method and that's not acceptable. Even in people mildly confused it's hard for them to grasp and do what is needed.

Care homes are designed to be homes, not sterile clinical settings, that makes them harder to keep sterile.

Then with so many vulnerable people in one place, it tends to be bigger news. 30 people infected and seriously ill, or several dying in a short space of time is more noticeable than 30 infections in a wider community.

But then Boris had a go at blaming the care workers, shouldn't be surprised if the general public follow without having the first idea of what us and the residents face, while the large care companies make profit from it all. It's standard in care, blame the front staff because we don't have a voice.

Community spread probably seeded into that age group from Christmas mixing. 3 weeks after Christmas the worst death rates were reported and the stats tell us that over 80s have highest Covid19 mortality rate.

Hospitals - again over 80s most likely to need other medical care.

@somethingonthecarpet I don't know if people are blaming carers, when they say they're spreading infection. FIL has Alzheimers and falls, he literally never leaves the house, but he got ill at the start of the week then MIL got ill a couple of days later (not confirmed as Covid yet but I'd be incredibly surprised if they had negative test results). FIL has carers look after him 3 times a day, he could only have picked up his infection from one of them. Its not a criticism of the carers at all.

I dont struggle to believe the poster above who says the over 65s are showing low compliance with the regs, if MIL is anything to go by. She's been going about her business, and BIL brought his kids to see her on the same day she booked her test. Which she wouldn't have booked at all except DH made a fuss.

My 91 yr old aunt had her flu jab just before Christmas. She had her mask on (in her own home) but the nurse didn’t. I was fucking furious.

My friend's 88- year-old mother went to hospital for her regular dialysis and got it in the hospital. The hospital would not admit her (due to kidney failure problem) provided pallative care and sent her home. Six of her eight adult children took turns caring for her. Two of her sons got it. They took it back to their families and four of the grandchildren got it.
88-year-old grandmother ---- died.
50ish-year-old son ---- died.
Teenage grandson --- died.
This was in California where the virus is out of control still.

GeorgiaGirl I'm so sorry to hear this. My relative also died from it. Their spouse caught it, and has so far managed to 'hang on'. Their child who is in their 40s caught it from them, having previously tested negative, and then their spouse caught it (also in 40s) and is still not well.

Multi-generational households.

This has been a major issue in Leicester and other towns with very large South Asian communities since the start of the pandemic. Many such families live in 3 or 4 generation households. The kids go to school. The teenagers go to college & to meet their mates. The parents go out to work. They all come home and infect the grandparents with covid, who then end up in hospital.

Probably a combination of your suggestions OP. Also not all elderly are housebound and have relatives on tap to run about after them for bread, milk and prescriptions etc.
Also if my father was anything to go by he had carers coming in 4 times a day every day which was almost always 4 different carers a day (who all saw many other vulnerable patients in their own homes). My father was also in poor health and had umpteen appointments at the hospital or GP and frequently had bad water infections, problems with his heart and pneumonia requiring frequent home visits from doctors, paramedics which often resulted in lengthy hospital admissions. So the most vulnerable were more exposed to risky situations.
Also some elderly are visited by family who maybe have many social contacts and some are crippled by loneliness are being visited and exposed by family members.

My aunt works in a care home. A colleague came in coughing Friday said she had a cold.This woman worked all weekend with my aunt even though she should have been self isolating. They're tested 3x a week her Friday test was negative. On the following Monday her test was positive,she was also working that day. My aunt had her first pzifer Jab Monday but woke up Tues with covid.

Also, a few months back. My sons ex is a care home worker, one of her friends who worked at the same home went to an illegal rave, had mild symptoms and carried on going to work!

My neighbour picked it up when she was taken to hospital after a fall.

Sorry not rtft but my Nan in law in her 90s is reliant on friends and family as has no mobile phone or internet so a lot of the modern conveniences we take for granted - deliveroo, clock and collect, internet banking etc even a milk man - are difficult for her to arrange and she wouldn't want it if she couldn't oversee it . So various family , friends and Neighbours are dropping things off who could be a symptomatic and leaving germs on bags etc

@Thirtyrock39

Sorry not rtft but my Nan in law in her 90s is reliant on friends and family as has no mobile phone or internet so a lot of the modern conveniences we take for granted - deliveroo, clock and collect, internet banking etc even a milk man - are difficult for her to arrange and she wouldn't want it if she couldn't oversee it . So various family , friends and Neighbours are dropping things off who could be a symptomatic and leaving germs on bags etc

This is the same for the elderly people I know and it really frustrates me that more support has not been given. Simple things like prescriptions. I’ve set mine up online so I get them delivered. My relatives are still having to go every few weeks to the GP and then queue in the chemist to collect. It’s ridiculous. I’m doing their shopping online but I can’t do everything as we are a long way away

My mum is in her 80s and has been out more than me since the pandemic began. She has to get shopping regularly, go to the chemist and doctors appointments (using public transport)I'm 35 years younger and don't have to do any of those things.

Also the elderly were never actually required to shield.