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Original poster

Immunity post virus "at least as good as vaccine"

56 replies

wideskies · 14/01/2021 08:03

So the front of The Times says if you've had Covid, immunity is at least as good as having had the vaccine based on a Public Health England study. The same piece of research is reported by the BBC as "5 months of immunity".

So now I'm left wondering, do I feel positive that I've had Covid over Christmas and have some immunity, or a bit down that the immunity only lasts 5 months?? Hoping to find out more on the study today

OP posts:
HairyFloppins · 14/01/2021 10:43

Loads on here seem to be catching it twice. Some within quite a short time frame. We all had it in December with DH hospitalized. I do not want him to suffer like that again and would jump at the chance for us all to be vaccinated.

Frouby · 14/01/2021 10:45

It is good news. Am pretty sure dh had it in March during thr first weeks of the first lockdown, he had the most horrendously barking cough for 6 weeks, 2 x abs for suspected chest infection and then sinusitis. Never normally ill at all. He had been in contact with a later confirmed positive case (hospitalised and later died). I felt a bit off but was never sure if I was ill or hungover. March was thirsty.

trulydelicious · 14/01/2021 10:47

@CrackOpenTheGin and @RedToothBrush

Surely there is now an argument for vaccinating people who haven’t had a positive test first then

I agree also. Not because vaccines would be 'wasted' on the elderly or any of that crap, but because it would really make sense if there is a reasonable expectation that those who have had it are already immune.

Some HCP - specially those who are most at risk working in Covid wards, for instance - still want to be vaccinated to be on the safe side. This is understandable too in my view.

trulydelicious · 14/01/2021 10:50

Surely there is now an argument for vaccinating people who haven’t had a positive test first then

Perhaps this would make sense for the population who are in theory not at risk - e.g. a young nurse not on a Covid ward without underlying health conditions?

titchy · 14/01/2021 10:59

[quote Tarararara]This suggests we are at 22% having had covid by 4th Jan. So yes, I see that's a long way from the rates needed for herd immunity.

www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2021/jan/10/one-in-five-have-had-coronavirus-in-england-new-modelling-says[/quote]
This.

I think I saw that 85% of the population needs to be vaccinated to give herd immunity to the new strain. So we've quite a way to go.

bumbleymummy · 14/01/2021 11:04

@GirlCalledJames

Herd immunity is probably a bit higher than you are imagining. It’s 80% for polio and 95% for measles.
From a recent study:

“ COVID-19 Herd immunity threshold estimates are as high as 60 to 80 percent. This shows that a high number of the population needs to be immune to the infection either by getting infected (active immunity) or by vaccination to protect the remaining non-immune population. ”

Delta1 · 14/01/2021 11:08

@trulydelicious

Surely there is now an argument for vaccinating people who haven’t had a positive test first then

Perhaps this would make sense for the population who are in theory not at risk - e.g. a young nurse not on a Covid ward without underlying health conditions?

According to the Times, there is a call for this to be discussed again on the back of these findings, having been previously dismissed. Anyway - it's the first bit of good news we've had this year and I think we all need a bit of that at the moment.
RedToothBrush · 14/01/2021 11:11

Abraxan demonstrates my point entirely.

The science is saying one thing, but this isn't good enough to override the anxiety.

trulydelicious · 14/01/2021 11:26

Let's hope they do it @Delta1

trulydelicious · 14/01/2021 11:29

Perhaps this would make sense for the population who are in theory not at risk - e.g. a young nurse not on a Covid ward without underlying health conditions

Just to clarify, if this young nurse had already been confirmed to have had covid (through a positive test) and recovered

NewYearNewLockdown · 14/01/2021 11:47

Those saying you had it twice, did you actually test positive both times or are you just assuming you had it twice?

Porcupineintherough · 14/01/2021 11:53

@NewYearNewLockdown yes really sure (antibody test first time, pcr second). Stop fighting it, the science is there, it happens.

Do you really think people go round saying it for attention?

NewYearNewLockdown · 14/01/2021 11:55

Do you really think people go round saying it for attention?

No but I do know people assume they've had it just because they had a cold.

OhTinnitus · 14/01/2021 12:09

That wouldn't protect you from any new strains of covid though would it?

Anecdotally, I also know someone who is confirmed as having had covid twice and he now has horrendous long covid symptoms - including serious heart issues.

LindaEllen · 14/01/2021 12:10

If you understand how the vaccine works, though, it shouldn't be any surprise that you get the same levels of immunity as you would with the vaccine.

However long natural immunity lasts is how long the vaccine will last.

The vaccine works by tricking your body into thinking it's being invaded, and it therefore produces the antibodies. Same as if you've beaten covid naturally.

oddperson · 14/01/2021 12:43

what about the different variants though? I have Covid, obviously do not know which strain I have , will i have some protection against all the strains. I am expecting my vaccine around end of March, I am in Group 6.

There is so much uncertainty with this virus

Original poster
wideskies · 14/01/2021 13:00

Ah that minimum 5 months is more promising. I didn't get a detailed read in yet with the working and homeschooling. But this makes me feel more positive!

I'm sad to hear about people getting it a second time already, I had hoped that would be quite rare. Obviously we are still following all the rules but I just had a bit more comfort knowing at least we have antibodies now and immune system somewhat trained to fight it.

Such a long way to go in this fight against covid. The new strains are coming so thick and fast.

OP posts:
Baileysforchristmas · 14/01/2021 13:11

Someone on here the other day said they’d had it 3 times. I haven’t had it once yet, fingers crossed i don’t.

Abraxan · 14/01/2021 13:19

However long natural immunity lasts is how long the vaccine will last.

This isn't necessarily the case and it depends on how the specific vaccine works.
A number of vaccines offer much better protection than natural immunity.
Vaccines often work in a different way to catching it naturally,

Baileysforchristmas · 14/01/2021 13:51

This is interesting only 44 people out of 6614 were infected twice.

PHE's ongoing study on immunity in healthcare workers found 44 potential re-infections in a group of 6,614 people who had previously had the virus.
Researchers conclude reinfection is uncommon but still possible and say people must continue to follow current guidance, whether they have had antibodies or not.

1dayatatime · 14/01/2021 13:57

@LindaEllen

If you understand how the vaccine works, though, it shouldn't be any surprise that you get the same levels of immunity as you would with the vaccine.

However long natural immunity lasts is how long the vaccine will last.

The vaccine works by tricking your body into thinking it's being invaded, and it therefore produces the antibodies. Same as if you've beaten covid naturally.

Exactly
JS87 · 14/01/2021 14:01

@LindaEllen

If you understand how the vaccine works, though, it shouldn't be any surprise that you get the same levels of immunity as you would with the vaccine.

However long natural immunity lasts is how long the vaccine will last.

The vaccine works by tricking your body into thinking it's being invaded, and it therefore produces the antibodies. Same as if you've beaten covid naturally.

Actually that's not quite true. There are all kinds of ways that viruses manipulate the immune system to try to generate a poor immune response. Vaccines don't have these tricks up their sleeves and are designed to stimulate robust immunity. The addition of adjuvants can help prime stronger immune responses although I don't think the current vaccines have adjuvants. So vaccines and natural immunity can be different although the antibodies are (partly) to the same thing - the spike protein. There may be antibodies to other parts of the virus with natural immunity whereas the current vaccines only contain the spike protein.
1dayatatime · 14/01/2021 14:24

So out of 21,000 health care workers tested in June 2020 6,614 tested positive for antibodies (or 32%).

Now being healthcare workers the chances of getting covid are a lot higher than other occupations so that skews how representative the 32% is of the wider population. But on the other hand the number of positive tests now is way higher than back in June 2020.

So as a pure guesstimate I would think 20 to 22% of the population already have antibodies. With higher rates in certain occupations (teachers, supermarket workers) and lower in the elderly or vulnerable due to self isolation or for that matter anyone else that has been actively taking preventative measures.

(based on 3.2 million people having tested positive, only 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 being symptomatic so between 13 to 15 million people have had Covid already and a UK population of 66 million).

At what level herd immunity is achieved is impossible to answer as it depends on what is defined as an acceptable number of cases going forward .

titchy · 14/01/2021 14:29

@Baileysforchristmas

Someone on here the other day said they’d had it 3 times. I haven’t had it once yet, fingers crossed i don’t.
Bet they went to Elevenerife on their holidays too Wink