How to prove exemptions?

[Givemeabreak88]

Does anyone know how you can prove that you are exempt from wearing a face mask if drs are refusing to give letters? A lot of the shops are now refusing entry unless you are wearing one. I try to shop mostly online but sometimes not always possible.

The thing is if you are TRULY exempt, it's not as if you are exempt due to a dreadfully embarrassing very personal health condition.

I have a letter from my psychiatrist and yes, personally I find my diagnosis a "dreadfully embarrassing very personal health condition". I have ptsd, my rapist suffocated and choked me into submission. I don't like discussing what happened to me with my psychiatrist or with dh or even with my then flatmate who found me and took me to hospital in the aftermath.

I'm "lucky". I have a diagnosis and a dh who has done 99 % of the shopping. I suspect from support groups that I'm in, I'm in a minority.

With respect, that's a terrible idea.
As you say, it is added risk for all, including the genuinely exempt having to share air with others without masks.

Can you demonstrate what the 'added risk to all' is?

It is the same number of people not wearing masks. The same number of people in the store (actually probably fewer as I wouldn't expect the store to be at max capacity unless there are more exempt than there seems to be at present) at risk of breathing their exhaled droplets. Therefore no additional risk to all.

It would also be abused by those who claim exemption falsely.

It already is. No change there.

@Haffiana
It wouldn't be the same number of people wearing not masks though - at the moment they are spread out across the week, but you're suggesting they all come in together for an hour or two if I've understood right. So a group of people all potentially shedding their viral load at the same time, within said group of unprotected people.

@CrocodilesCry

The majority of people who do not wear masks do not wear them because they don't believe in Covid or mask-wearing - not because they genuinely cannot wear a mask.

The thing is if you are TRULY exempt, it's not as if you are exempt due to a dreadfully embarrassing very personal health condition.

It's either going to be a breathing condition (which IMO you shouldn't be out anyway with a lung/breathing condition severe enough to prevent you breathing through a mask) or due to an anxiety or a learning difficulty/autism diagnosis or similar?

It's not as if they're asking you to show them a boil on your bottom when you're asked why you are exempt so I don't see the big deal?

The way I see it, you can't be exempt from wearing a seat belt in a car, or showing a blue badge when parking in a disabled space, or from wearing a hard hat/boots/safety glasses in certain jobs whatever your condition.

But for the small minority who truly, genuinely cannot wear a mask surely you would be happy to provide some proof - be that a letter showing your diagnosis, or your medication (eg inhaler) or similar.

I am asthmatic and wear a mask. If I genuinely couldn't I personally wouldn't go out at all, but if I did, I would be happy to show my inhaler as my reason for not wearing a mask.

I don't understand why others can't do the same.

Some people are exempt due to PTSD as a result of rape.

A big burly security guard (or indeed, anyone) demanding to know the reason for their exemption would hardly be appropriate.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, there is no such thing as proof. A letter of diagnosis contains potentially sensitive information regarding medical conditions most supermarket staff would not be able to evaluate anyway. It does not confirm exemption. Neither does an inhaler, because as you point out, some people with asthma can wear masks.

It's a shame you can't understand why people who are exempt may need to leave the house for work, for example. Or essential medical appointments. Or myriad other reasons of the sort non-exempt people also need to leave home for.

And you can be exempt from wearing a seatbelt.

@Haffiana the viral load of hundreds of potentially infected people in the same place at the same time is greater than a handful.

[quote Twillow]@Haffiana
It wouldn't be the same number of people wearing not masks though - at the moment they are spread out across the week, but you're suggesting they all come in together for an hour or two if I've understood right. So a group of people all potentially shedding their viral load at the same time, within said group of unprotected people.[/quote]
Mask wearing does not protect the wearer. It protects EVERYONE ELSE.

So a proportion of the people not wearing masks at any given time are shedding, right? It will be the SAME proportion of the non-mask wearers shedding whether they are with others not wearing masks or or with others wearing masks.

Therefore there is NO CHANGE in the risk to the other people in the supermarket with the shedding non-mask wearer if the other people are wearing masks or not.

The benefits to the mask exempt are as listed above - no needing to prove exemption, no disablism, no getting abuse, no feeling that they are under attack and in fact none of the stuff that is in all the threads on mask wearing etc etc.

A win surely.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'How is it better in terms of community transmission to have hundreds of maskless people together in an enclosed space, rather than one or two?'

They would socially distance, use gel?

Also, they'd see how it feels like for the rest of us. I am sympathetic to a point, I know Deaf and also disabled people who find face covers add to their already existing challenges but they wear a thin face cover or a visor because they understand it is a public health emergency and not, or shouldn't be, personal choice.

It's not like that for the rest of you, though, is it?

Shopping in a dedicated one hour slot per week (if you're at work, ill, caring for DC or whatever, tough shit). You're not in a supermarket with hundreds of people where not one person is wearing a mask.

How is it a 'choice' not to wear a mask if you cannot? Do you understand what exemption means? If you're exempt, you can't wear a mask, however thin. In some cases you can't wear a visor, either.

Also, you're sympathetic 'up to a point'? Which point?

The benefits to the mask exempt are as listed above - no needing to prove exemption, no disablism

What's strange is your suggestion that people with disabilities/health conditions be rounded up together to be exposed to greater risk sounds quite a lot like ableism.

[quote MerciSeat]@Haffiana the viral load of hundreds of potentially infected people in the same place at the same time is greater than a handful.[/quote]
Anyone in a supermarket is there with hundreds of potentially infected people.

Anyone without a mask is potentially increasing the risk to others if they are infected. It makes no difference whether the others are wearing a mask or not.

I know what viral load means, and it doesn't really apply here. What do you actually mean?

@MerciSeat

The benefits to the mask exempt are as listed above - no needing to prove exemption, no disablism

What's strange is your suggestion that people with disabilities/health conditions be rounded up together to be exposed to greater risk sounds quite a lot like ableism.

I didn't use emotive words like 'rounded up' did I? That sounds a lot like twisting my words to prove your point that I am being ableist.

I suggested that those who are mask exempt get a slot just as they do for elderly people and in some places still do for NHS workers.

There is no greater risk.

So does this apply to children? Would those who have to take children who cannot wear masks have to shop in this hour too?

An obvious solution is change to a pharmacy that will deliver your medication?

@Twillow

As I said up thread, I also do my shopping in Tesco... am there anyway. My weekly Tesco shop is the one bit of normality I have and I wont give it up.

'How is it a 'choice' not to wear a mask if you cannot? Do you understand what exemption means? If you're exempt, you can't wear a mask, however thin. In some cases you can't wear a visor, either. Also, you're sympathetic 'up to a point'? Which point?'

Well, as I said I have Deaf friends and disabled relatives so I'm sympathetic to the extra difficulties and challenges face covers, visors or scarf causes. However the public health emergency is the priority. If you really can't compromise and at least pull a scarf up to contain any droplets then imo shop online it's that simple. Or produce an 'exemption' note readily available on the gov site.

The suggestion of a not very generous twice weekly "no mask" hour in shops is awful. Yes, there is vulnerable and NHS hours too but the people using them can shop at any other time too.. they are not just limited to those times.
And having such an hour to "avoid abuse".... shoppers should not be giving abuse to others full stop.
I would not be comfortable telling or showing shop staff WHY I am exempt. What if they believe it not to be a proper reason? Or have no idea what a particular diagnosis is?

I assume it's Boots so would contact Head Office and ask . They can't have this policy in the UK without breaking the law. Lanyards can be bought online without proof so don't prove exemption

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'How is it a 'choice' not to wear a mask if you cannot? Do you understand what exemption means? If you're exempt, you can't wear a mask, however thin. In some cases you can't wear a visor, either. Also, you're sympathetic 'up to a point'? Which point?'

Well, as I said I have Deaf friends and disabled relatives so I'm sympathetic to the extra difficulties and challenges face covers, visors or scarf causes. However the public health emergency is the priority. If you really can't compromise and at least pull a scarf up to contain any droplets then imo shop online it's that simple. Or produce an 'exemption' note readily available on the gov site.

Being exempt means you can't 'compromise' by pulling a scarf over your face. It means you can't wear a face covering.

And your opinion is fine, you're entitled to it, but it's not the law and it's not even government advice. Not everyone can shop online. I've been unable to get a slot for weeks. Some people can't afford the minimum spend. Some people aren't online. And no, not everyone has a legion of friends and family who can help.

And yes, people need to go to work (sometimes in supermarkets).

And the exemption note is a) not proof of exemption and b) not required, as I'm sure you'll know given you're so au fait with the government site.

@Haffiana no, you didn't say rounded up.

You said that mask exempt people (ie, people with disabilities and/or health conditions) should all do their shopping at the same time during a designated hour away from everyone else.

My mistake.

No mention of how children fit in then because obviously they would only be allowed in during mask free hours.
Not so easy to 'other' children.

There are other reasons a person might be exempt other than breathing problems and autism/mental health. I have trigeminal neuralgia meaning anything touching one side of my face at best puts me in agony and at worst fit and wet myself. I have a scar from my surgery (to treat the tumor causing the TN) from the top of my scalp to the bottom of my neck which I also can't have any pressure on, so the glasses/visor solutions never work for me. And no, I don't want to tell random people I don't know my entire medical history or show them a letter with my diagnosis info, because they won't understand and most likely haven't even heard of if, will entirely minimise it and say 'just put up with it for 5 minutes' or 'it can't be that bad' - it is that bad, and I'm glad most people will never experience the pain I go through on a daily basis. It is embarrassing to say that as an adult woman who looks healthy, I could fit and piss myself at any moment if the wind blows the wrong way. I wouldn't choose a job where I had to wear something like a headset either for this reason, so it can't be compared to being required to wear for example a hard hat for construction work.

A few hours at random times for the maskless is not useful. Firstly, lots of people who are exempt do have jobs, DC and other commitments. We're not bed bound hermits. I couldn't do my shopping at a guaranteed time every time because my lectures aren't the same every week and even if they were, those hours might not be hours I can get there as I have to get a lift with my mum (support bubble) when she goes and, as she wears a mask and does her shopping at the same time, she would have to do more journeys if we couldn't shop at the same time, the guidance is obviously for essential journeys only. People who don't wear one purely because they don't want to will just go at that time, but that isn't the fault of the people who are genuinely exempt. Seems like some posters are happy for people with exemptions to be shunned and punished because of their disability.

What we need is officially issued cards, it's obvious people are not wearing them who can - builders (presume by their attire) in particular seem to not bother them there's whole families (don't get me started on why they are all out shopping in asda, only see this at Asda) then there's 3 teenage girls who seem to always be in Lidl none masked, touching the bakery products with their hands. It's a small place here , you start to recognise people

@Underhisi

No mention of how children fit in then because obviously they would only be allowed in during mask free hours. Not so easy to 'other' children.

Obviously children will go shopping with their parent when their parent shops. Obviously.

@MummytoCSJH

There are other reasons a person might be exempt other than breathing problems and autism/mental health. I have trigeminal neuralgia meaning anything touching one side of my face at best puts me in agony and at worst fit and wet myself. I have a scar from my surgery (to treat the tumor causing the TN) from the top of my scalp to the bottom of my neck which I also can't have any pressure on, so the glasses/visor solutions never work for me. And no, I don't want to tell random people I don't know my entire medical history or show them a letter with my diagnosis info, because they won't understand and most likely haven't even heard of if, will entirely minimise it and say 'just put up with it for 5 minutes' or 'it can't be that bad' - it is that bad, and I'm glad most people will never experience the pain I go through on a daily basis. It is embarrassing to say that as an adult woman who looks healthy, I could fit and piss myself at any moment if the wind blows the wrong way. I wouldn't choose a job where I had to wear something like a headset either for this reason, so it can't be compared to being required to wear for example a hard hat for construction work.

A few hours at random times for the maskless is not useful. Firstly, lots of people who are exempt do have jobs, DC and other commitments. We're not bed bound hermits. I couldn't do my shopping at a guaranteed time every time because my lectures aren't the same every week and even if they were, those hours might not be hours I can get there as I have to get a lift with my mum (support bubble) when she goes and, as she wears a mask and does her shopping at the same time, she would have to do more journeys if we couldn't shop at the same time, the guidance is obviously for essential journeys only. People who don't wear one purely because they don't want to will just go at that time, but that isn't the fault of the people who are genuinely exempt. Seems like some posters are happy for people with exemptions to be shunned and punished because of their disability.

Fellow TN bod here. It's utter shit isn't it. All of it

Shops need to introduce an hour twice a week for mask exempt shoppers. That way they can all shop together. They have done this for elderly shoppers and even in the past for NHS workers.

The elderly and NHS workers can also shop at any other time. Is that what you're suggesting for those who are mask exempt due to disability? If so, there's no need, we're already allowed to use the elderly and vulnerable time slots.

But @Haffiana, children are potential disease vectors. I take it you insist they wear masks, too?

If they can't wear a mask they could only go in shops during the hours that people are allowed mask free. Otherwise they will spreading the virus everywhere. So their parent will have to shop during those few hours.