To wonder why they haven’t said anything about smokers?

[NailsNeedDoing]

It occurred to me, while I was having a cigarette, that I haven’t heard anything about how smokers are affected by covid, which seems a bit odd considering covid is a respiratory illness and we know how bad smoking is for lungs.

We’ve heard about all the other extra risk factors like obesity, age, ethnicity, living in an area of deprivation but unless I’ve missed it, I haven’t heard anything about smokers. Are they just not collecting that data or something?

My theory is that as smokers we have more hand to mouth action going on and so probably come into contact with more viruses and germs than non smokers

This is a wind up, surely.

How do u manage to do loads of exercise as a smoker? Don’t u feel out of breath a fair bit?

When I smoked I still exercised and yes, sometimes it would make me out of breath a fair bit.

But it's obviously doable otherwise overweight people couldn't do it either.

Smoking and risk is not clear cut. Smokers are 'generally' thinner than the rest of the population. You can smoke and still be very fit.

disclaimer - I am not a smoker and I am overweight. Smoking is clearly not good for you but the bigger picture needs to be considered.

I'm not a smoker, but this is fascinating. I didn't realise sissies show smokers are lower risk.

I think it's worth challenging the idea it's not a good idea to quit right now.

Depending on your age and other risk factors smoking increases your chances of having a heart attack or stroke every day you smoke- it's not just about lung cancer (which ironically people fear, but are less likely to get than heart attack/stroke).

If you fancy going into hospital right now, I wouldn't!

So, your risk isn't just about weighing covid vs lung cancer, it's weighing covid vs risk of not being treated/ambulance not coming and so forth.

If you get covid and are hospitalized as a smoker, then you are more likely to have a severe response and once you get to the ITU end of things, smokers are much more likely to die (they also have lots of pre-existing conditions).

It's really complicated, in other words. Definitely seems some protective effect (or possibly people lying that they didn't smoke?) but severity later on.

The biggest impact though is that smoking-related illnesses of which there's a huge amount and over half smokers affected won't be treated well by an overwhelmed by covid NHS.

@Gwenhwyfar

"But previous poster said “UK” So I wanted to raise that not all of the UK"

She obviously meant in general, which is true.

She said the “UK”

I wanted to make clear it wasn’t all of the UK

Yes she could well have meant what you think she meant. But likewise she could have meet something else.

So no harm In clarifying that not quite as bleak as “the UK”!

@namesnamesnamesnames

I'm not a smoker, but this is fascinating. I didn't realise sissies show smokers are lower risk.

Sorry but 'sissies' cracked me up 🤣🤣

I've got no idea tbh. I mean I might be out of breath if I've really been going hard. So either at a competition or after really hard training. But generally day to day I don't notice it. And I'm definitely a lot more capable of hard exercise than many of my friends who aren't smokers. I'm sure it'll all catch up with me at some point, like a previous poster said, I'll probably keel over with a heart attack. Sorry non of that is really relevant to this thread. Just wanted to say it's very possible to be very fit and exercising a lot and also being a smoker.

Thanks @CuntAmongstThePigeons just curious. I train quite hard and l couldn’t have imagined trying it as a smoker!
( used to smoke)

Actually, COVID is not a respiratory illness. It is a systemic illness. The lungs can be especially vulnerable, but it is systemic. Which is why any number of people (I'm betting in the thousands, and high thousands, at that) who die of heart attacks, stroke, kidney failure and such are undiagnosed COVID deaths. There is no time nor personnel to autopsy a seemingly straight-forward death. Damage done to organs by COVID is classic, and easily diagnosed...IF you have the time to autopsy every death.

I read somewhere that smokers are less likely to be affected, or less likely to be affected badly.

I dare say the virus prefers nice clean lungs.

If smokers were generally at a greater risk, I’m sure we’d have heard plenty about it by now.

The biggest impact though is that smoking-related illnesses of which there's a huge amount and over half smokers affected won't be treated well by an overwhelmed by covid NHS.

The notion of the NHS rationing treatment is startling, but they do it all the time. In terms of smoking, a relative of mine didn't qualify for IVF because her partner smoked, which can impact male fertility apparently.

It's when they're having to do it with critical care it's really scary.

@PaddyF0dder

Huge overlap between smoking, obesity, deprivation etc anyway. Probably a bit difficult to pull apart the confounders. I suspect obesity was simply more obvious from a statistical viewpoint.

Anyway, smoking is bad for you and you should probably stop.

FFS, I’m pretty sure the OP knows that already 🙄

@SomewhatBored

They're currently running the nicotine patch study which I think is set to run for 6 or 7 months

I also read that part of the reason for smokers' bad outcomes was that they suffer nicotine withdrawal if they are hospitalised. Nicotine patches to wear in hospital would seem like a good idea, especially as so many hospitals won't even let you smoke outside nowadays.

Yes, this is my understanding from previous studies I've come across. Smokers appear to be greatly underrepresented in hospital admissions but once in hospital they do much worse.

This is one interesting hypothesis:

I'm not sure what to make of the Zoe app study:

thorax.bmj.com/content/early/2021/01/05/thoraxjnl-2020-216422

I hope it's scrutinised as closely as the other studies with less convenient findings. The things that immediately raise questions for me are:

• people who sign up to the app are a self-selecting group that isn't representative of the population as a whole. Significantly only 11% of app users said they were current smokers (compared to a national prevalence of 14.1%)

• smokers tended to use the app for shorter periods

• symptoms were self-reported

• the study only included those who reported symptoms so no asymptomatic cases were included

• the study included people who reported symptoms but were not tested (data is from March/April so this is the majority). Smokers were less likely to be tested and of those who were tested, smokers were less likely to test positive

• hospital attendance was self-reported and there is no data on hospital attendance vs. hospital admission vs. ICU admission

• the study uses number of symptoms as the main proxy for disease severity, giving all symptoms equal weight. I'm not convinced that's a very good proxy.

There is never a bad time to quit smoking - however, while questions remain about the role of nicotine and the effects of abrupt withdrawal, it could be a very bad time to go cold turkey, especially as NRT and vaping are themselves very low risk.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

I've got no idea tbh. I mean I might be out of breath if I've really been going hard. So either at a competition or after really hard training. But generally day to day I don't notice it. And I'm definitely a lot more capable of hard exercise than many of my friends who aren't smokers. I'm sure it'll all catch up with me at some point, like a previous poster said, I'll probably keel over with a heart attack. Sorry non of that is really relevant to this thread. Just wanted to say it's very possible to be very fit and exercising a lot and also being a smoker.

I wonder what you’d be capable of exercise and fitness wise if you didn’t smoke!

Breathlessness just a way of life for lots of smokers. So probably many just shrugging it off whereas non smoker have a higher expectation of quality of life!

not being able to breath isn't something anyone can shrug off. Bit like having an asthma attack - if your not able to take breaths you can't and then panic regardless of how little your lungs can normally hold.

pneumonia is more likely in patients who smoke than others but this was last year and that may have changed

UK has a very low smoking rate compared to the rest of Europe and many other countries, its something we are high on the league boards on...

@CrotchBurn

Be careful OP, in Mumsnetland smoking is right up there with shitting in your MILs handbag, injecting children with drugs and hurting baby animals!

😂

I heard of this early on and similar to "Char" I said the same to a smoker friend nearly a year ago too - our lungs are so lined with tar the virus can't latch on.

Seriously though it would be interesting to see if the nicotine patch trials produce any postive results - so it could be determined if it was the nicotine or the by-products/side effects of smoking (eg: tar lined lungs).

Similar to other PPs, although a smoker since I was 14, I've also been fitter and stronger than many of my peers and many younger ones too as I've got older. I still can do more physically than a lot of 18 year olds even though I'm now 58 but yes, it is catching up with me now, more so the past year.

I've smoked rollies for the past 40 years, don't like ready-mades much - apparently they're an 'healthier' form of smoking.

I definitely cough more as a non (ex) smoker - smokers have fewer cillia or damaged cillia, which can mean they cough less. It's not really a good thing - coughing is how we clear out our lungs.

healthfully.com/smoking-the-cilia-5686208.html

This is an interesting thread.

Studies also show that smoking reduces the occurrence and severity of Ulcerative Colitis. Again it’s thought that nicotine may be the key.

www.everydayhealth.com/ulcerative-colitis/symptoms/link-between-smoking-ulcerative-colitis/

They did at the start, it was more on the fact less smokers got Covid.

Now there is vaping, and to be blunt, more use of illegal substances that are smoked (let's call it 'weed' for simplicity), are there not many tobacco smokers left?

This is an interesting paper on the "smoker's paradox" and COVID 19 from the BMJ. Smoking may both give some protection as well increasing the risk of complications.

ebm.bmj.com/content/ebmed/early/2020/08/11/bmjebm-2020-111492.full.pdf

The lovely Dr Campbell addresses smoking in yesterday's video.

It doesn't protect you, but does the opposite, somewhat unsurprisingly. Damn it.

Yes I think if you look it up there is something protective to do with nicotinic receptors. But they are not going tell the naughty smokers