New Variant requires 3m Distance

[Jenasaurus]

Just watched Jeremy Hunt on BBC News. Sage have advised that the 2m distance isnt far enough for the new variant and recommend it changes its guidance to 3m. How realistic is this to be achieved and if you are one of the many working in a Covid Secure Office/Environent what impact with the change to 3m distance have on your company.

Porcupineintherough, I was laughing when I wrote it. Sorry. I don't know whether to laugh or cry sometimes!

Do you suppose Jeremy Hunt and others seem to never actually do a weekly shop or visit a town centre, or sit in an hospital of any kind. This is ridiculous and a whole new level of 'out of touch'

So what if everyone is vaccinated?

We might still need mitigation measures, but maybe we could manage with less social distancing then.

I don’t mind if they increase it to 3 metres. I always wear my mask which means I’m invulnerable.

I’m a TA, sustained close contact with individuals. More than the teacher who sits at the front of the class.

Do you suppose we have time to relay new pavements and redesign new supermarket aisles?

@SexTrainGlue

This suggests that the droplets in which it floats through the air are smaller than first thought, though stops short of saying aerosol.

And yes it is concerning. But the current advice, which is to Stay At Home unless essential will still sharply reduce your risk.

Sorting out essential workplaces is a matter of some urgency though. All staff who can wfh should already be doing so, and so it's a case of looking at what remains that definitely requires in person services and how to space people out even further

How is it not aerosol spread?

Surely we need to assume that's the case.

I'm looking for a published source - they've just has someone (an epidemiologist on SAGE) on the BBC lunchtime news (sorry, didn't catch his name) and the story is all over MSM (seems to have started with The Telegraph).

There have been a lot of stories over the months about optimal distance to require - back in the summer, it was in the context of whether we could safely reduce to 1. There was evidence of transmission at over 4m, but that was rare; and 2m was the good rule of thumb for catching most risk, being easy to remember and being unmistakably a little difference from normal social contact.

So what has changed - definitely the transmissibility of the new variant, so lower infective dose might be a factor. As might size of droplet it wants to hitch a ride in - there is considerable (but still debated) evidence on it being much more readily airborne than first assessments. Plus there's the role of cool damp air to be considered, which again can affect how long it could hang around

@MiniTheMinx

B.1.1.7. is more contagious because it has found a more effective way to latch on to cells, not because it stays afloat in the air better.

This seems relevant.

Is there a link to SAGE on this op?

So we definitely need to look at how we can most effectively deliver on line lessons....

@BlueBaubles12

I don’t mind if they increase it to 3 metres. I always wear my mask which means I’m invulnerable.

Don't forget the gloves and plastic pinny and bottle of hand gel......then you are truly invincible.

"Plus there's the role of cool damp air to be considered, which again can affect how long it could hang around" SexTrainGlue Yep, definitely. There was some German research that suggested that using humidifiers were a good idea, but I think this is possibly wrong. The food factories that had outbreaks were damp environments that were cold.

Pumpkin "It now feels a bit like a free for all!
The government is incompetent on all levels and seems to be using the taxpayer as a cash cow for their mates"

Yes
3m is just another way to keep things closed while billions is given to private firms doing asymptomatic testing

@TheDailyCarbunkle

This is like some sort of bizarre comedy. We all have to stand 3m apart? Really? How will Boris do his Phalanx of Doom? Cameras will have to zoom so far out that they'll be barely visible.

In the first lockdown a paramedic friend of mine was told to treat patients from 2 metres away. It's a wonder really how the human race has survived this long, stupidity is so incredibly rife.

This made me laugh. I know it’s a serious time but really..

I suppose the upside is that we won't actually have to pay for anything! We won't be able to get anywhere near a cash till.

Official source, please, otherwise this is more scaremongering shit.

This is quite interesting

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763852

How far droplets travel in the air is down to ambient temperature, humidity, and airflow. The new variant is not hanging around longer in the air, you just need less virus to make contact because the virus is more effective at latching on to cells when it makes contact with us.

The only useful outcome of extending the 2m social distancing guidance is that it will render some permitted activities impossible, and might provoke the government to implement tougher restrictions. That's why Bojo is not listening to SAGE on this.

They are saying 3m as they don't want to say what they need to say, which is

"Don't spend any time in any room with anyone outside of your immediate family unless its an emergency"

Because that would open up an impossible scenario, remove the "bubble" option and be a final admission that schools aren't safe.

2 metres for hours together in an office was never very safe anyway.

The word they aren't using is "airborne".

2m and 15 mins together is a bit of a nonsense if it sits in the air and circulates to be breathed in 10 minutes after a covid infected person left the building.

Cold air carries less moisture. Central heating in the winter is warming this dried air. Humidifying that will help droplets fall.

Swapping out the air by opening a window will act on concentration of anything airborne.

The German method seem to be open the window when your CO2 level gets above some threshold, using that as a proxy for virus levels.

@MiniTheMinx

2m or 3m is not really going to make all that much difference. The new variant is a virus that has googly eyes and wings! its not like it flies better. Its better transmissibility will have nothing to do with some special super power that allows it to float about better.

Erm...I think you totally misunderstand aerosolisation and why 3M is required.

@PicsInRed

The word they aren't using is "airborne".

2m and 15 mins together is a bit of a nonsense if it sits in the air and circulates to be breathed in 10 minutes after a covid infected person left the building.

Bingo!

Absolutely. The test and trace fiasco, is more than just the inability of them to organise themselves. I would like to know where this idea of 15 minutes comes into it. Supposing the 15 minutes is based upon some known scientific data, is this because the virus has a maximum duration for being airborne? If we are now saying that we need to distance by 3m is that because the new variant is airborne for longer? NO of course not. So, can it travel further? NO. Because its trajectory and the rate it dissipates is due to various environmental factors such as humidity and airflow which are completely independent of the virus mutation.

allumpteennamechanges, I have explained, I was laughing when I typed it. But my point remains. If we now need 3m, we always did need 3m! The new variant is more transmissible only because of its ability to better attach to cells, not because it hangs about in the office for longer or flies further.

There was the article about the classroom and a bar which I thought explained it well. As well as the early studies with the restauarant and the air conditioning. It didn't matter really where you were in the room- just more likely if you were in the direct air flow....

I couldnt work out why schools moved to just sending those wihin 2m of a contact home on light of this 🤦‍♀️

We have to attend an opticians appointment Sunday and I am anxious.