Vaccine side effects - Bell’s palsy

[QuantumCheese]

I had Bell’s palsy about 20 years ago when I was pregnant and it was horrible. A mixture of pain, pregnancy hormones and having a facial disfigurement, although it was resolved eventually, caused me severe distress for many weeks.
So we are being offered the new Pfizer covid vaccine at work and it came to my attention that Bell’s palsy has been mentioned as one of the possible side effects and I’m terrified of this, even more than catching covid itself. I know it’s not logical and I’m being ridiculous but I can’t get this fear out of my head. It’s my Achilles heel unfortunately and I don’t know what to do.

I don’t know what the chances of getting it again and also that the chances of it happening due to the vaccine are very low but I can’t stop thinking about it. I should have the vaccine but I’m scared and wonder if the Oxford one would be better, if I could even get this later.

Before anyone slates me for being stupid, I know I am and should be grateful to be even offered a vaccine, but this is a big (irrational) fear for me. Any advice?

Why do people think the oxford vaccine would be better? The problem with these types of threads is that people don't think about the scientific rationale behind a question. Why would the pfizer vaccine be more likely to cause bells palsy than the oxford vaccine or covid-19 infection. There were only 11 636 participants in the oxford phase 3 trial. If you don't accept that 4 in 22000 people is within the normal range then what about the fact there were (supposedly) zero cases with the oxford vaccine.
I think the scientific rationale would be strongest that covid-19 infection might cause Bells Palsy in a minority of people and so any vaccine is probably safer than no vaccine. That might not matter if cases were low but if you live in London and have a high risk of catching covid-19 then I would have thought any vaccine would be safer than no vaccine.

Possibly because of the disfiguring nature of Bell's Palsy. If you had had it, you might sympathise

As opposed to the trivial effects of every other illness that befalls humanity?

AFAIK it's listed as a very rare side effect on nearly all vaccines. I don't worry about tiny risks.

@JS87

Why would the pfizer vaccine be more likely to cause bells palsy than the oxford vaccine or covid-19 infection

I don't think anyone is saying that. People ask these questions because Pfizer and Moderna have been unlucky and Bell's Palsy occurred in their trials, not the Oxford ones (as far as we understand). So it will be taken into account and monitored, that's all.

@FourTeaFallOut

Possibly because of the disfiguring nature of Bell's Palsy. If you had had it, you might sympathise

As opposed to the trivial effects of every other illness that befalls humanity?

But we're not talking about other illnesses. This thread is specifically about Bell's Palsy.

But why this one?

You mention that specifically the disfiguring element of the illness as the most distressing.

We know that women, younger women specifically have higher levels of vaccine hesitancy. The main anti-vax narrative for the year lands on fertility and now we have another that lands on vanity. I suppose that's just co-incidence, right? Even though we could have picked out any other illness that would have presented in normal levels among the trial participants.

@FourTeaFallOut

But why this one?

You mention that specifically the disfiguring element of the illness as the most distressing.

We know that women, younger women specifically have higher levels of vaccine hesitancy. The main anti-vax narrative for the year lands on fertility and now we have another that lands on vanity. I suppose that's just co-incidence, right? Even though we could have picked out any other illness that would have presented in normal levels among the trial participants.

I wouldn’t call being desperate to avoid something that leaves your face with paralysis as vanity. The paralysis this has caused my face has had a huge effect on my whole mental well-being. It’s more than vanity.

You say vanity like I think it's a bad thing - a trivial thing, I don't.

But are we going to pretend that being disfigured by illness has the same 'dread factor' in men and women, one that would tip your risk assessment about getting a vaccine for an ongoing pandemic with devastating social effects equally?

It could have been any other illness that got spun into an anti-vax narrative. But this one is more likely in pregnant and post-partum women.

Who's being put off when this statistically irrelevant information is whipped into a thing?

Personally I’m not anti vax in the slightest. If you’d suffered what I had with this illness then I’m sure any single one of you would be slightly hesitant to have a vaccine that carries even a slight chance of you having it again. The vanity thing touched a nerve (ha ha) with me because it’s something I live with and see every single time I look in the mirror. Made 10x worse at the moment WFH with bloody video calls. As I said upthread, I would like to have a discussion with a medical professional before being vaccinated - if they say Pfizer shouldn’t cause a problem then I’ll put my faith in them but I’d rather have that reassurance from someone who knows my history.

Absolutely, I think you should, a consultant is definitely the best person.

I'm just highlighting which of the vaccine doubts 'get legs' and why some spread better than others.

@FourTeaFallOut

that got spun into an anti-vax narrative

Most are saying that they will consult with their doctor and if necessary they will have a different vaccine. How does this make them anti-vaxx?

Oh, Jesus,that's a metaphor worthy of a teenage boy. That was unintentional, sorry

@FourTeaFallOut

which of the vaccine doubts get legs

I would like to find out more about any side effect, I would not take any potential issue lightly.

I have autoimmune disease and allergies. I am by nature very risk averse, but I also worry about Covid and would like to have a vaccine at some point if were safe for me to do so (although I am against it being made mandatory)

I find these threads informative and don't believe they are necessarily trying to fuel fear or spread concerns.

but the title of the thread and following messages make it looks like the vaccine could cause BP, of which there is absolutely no evidence. its like starting a thread stating the Vaccine causes you to crash your car. you can't just say random made up things (that people read and then believe) without being challenged and shut down.

We know that women, younger women specifically have higher levels of vaccine hesitancy. The main anti-vax narrative for the year lands on fertility and now we have another that lands on vanity. I suppose that's just co-incidence, right? Even though we could have picked out any other illness that would have presented in normal levels among the trial participants.

It's not simply a vanity thing, though, although as you say, in the young it's a very big deal. I got it in my 60s so that wasn't a concern for me. BP at its worst makes eating difficult (think drooling on the paralysed side or spilling your drinks, also biting your cheek because you can't manouever your face as normal. It's not nice. I didn't stop the biting/nipping thing for around 18 months afterwards as my mouth was the last thing to right itself.

There's also the problem that after an episode your nerves may not heal up right, I'm not sure of the correct terminology, but it can mean you wink every time you chew. Sounds comical, but it's annoying. Not everyone makes a full recovery. My physio's brother had it and has never fully gotten his facial movement back.

you can't just say random made up things (that people read and then believe) without being challenged and shut down.

A bit of a stretch to call this randomly made up? When there have been cases? Whether you think they are just normally occurring cases in the population that cropped up after vaccination or not, it's still worthy of discussing.

I'm not say that it's nice or that it doesn't bring physiological difficulties that are lifelong. I'm just saying this nuggets of statistical irrelevance plays on the insecurities of the most vaccine hesitant section of the population, like fertility.

my point.. @CrunchyCarrot people who took the vaccine have had car crashes too. so must be linked

both BP and crashes happen at the same rate (more even) in the general population than to those who took the vaccine. there's no increase noted with the vaccine so its an incredible stretch to suggest it causes it.

So presumably the same % of participants in the trial who had the placebo also got Bell's palsy?

1 person who got a placebo was found to have it which is a statistically insignificant difference due to the size of the trial, and combined showed no increase to the usual incidence rate expected to be seen amongst a group that size. what is proven to have a cause it actually getting virus's.

There's a sections about it on full facts, there's a link on it to the FDA report NewYearNewLockdown with more information.

fullfact.org/online/bells-palsy-vaccine-trial/

@tellthem

1 person who got a placebo was found to have it

This is for Moderna.

None of those who received the placebo in the Pfizer trial got Bell's Palsy

It's in the link below

www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20201217/fda-says-vaccine-recipients-should-be-monitored-for-facial-paralysis

This has been debunked hasn’t it?

@trulydelicious importantly in your link it states ;

"the rate of Bell’s palsy in the clinical trials is lower than the overall rate in the general population"

Therefore if you take anything away from the trials - the vaccine would be a benefit not a risk.

Thank you all for your replies. Just caught up with this so haven’t seen the deleted posts and don’t want to tbh.
I apologise if anyone thinks I am scaremongering. I can assure you that I am not, just scared myself and in need of reassurance and I appreciate the links provided.

My attention was drawn to this subject on another thread I read by chance on MN and I wish I hadn’t seen it as the potential link to BP would never have occurred to me and I wouldn’t have gone looking but unfortunately it sowed the seeds of doubt in my anxious mind. If MN want to delete this thread that is fine by me because I don’t want to upset anyone by the title and contents.