Struggling with restrictions and mentally ill DD

[Shimea34]

DD 22 lives localish at her uni but in a houseshare with people she does not really interact with. We live about a half an hour drive (same county) and have so far seen her outside. Her fiancé lives five minutes away and sees her- again- outside

Recently she's confided that she's feeling ill again mentally- Don't want to be too revealing, but she has severe mental illness, including a cluster b personality disorder, history of suicide/self harm. She's also had a significant anorexia relapse during the March lockdown, although that did improve.

She can't move in with us, we literally have no room. We sold our bigger house when she moved out and now have a tiny house (but no mortgage!) Can't move in with her partner til june as he lives in post-grad uni accommodation and they're not allowed to have people over full stop, even if they're engaged!

Can we/her partner (only one set of us) legally see her indoors? I know she isn't a single adult, but I know you can see people "to avoid harm." But does this mean we could see her only if she's literally having a meltdown and in imminent danger, or to keep her mental health stable in the first place to avoid deterioration? She receives some disability allowance as well, so it's not us inventing this to circumvent rules

We currently see her outside but it's honestly very hard.

Also we are not looking to break the rules for the sake of it, before anyone wants to have a go at me for that. My daughter was so much better, in therapy and doing well. The pandemic happened, all her support got withdrawn and now I fear she's losing all progress. We've followed all the rules but three lockdowns in, I think something has to give for her sake

Also if we did see her inside, it would be us or her boyfriend, not both. I think we are better support wise but also partner lives nearer so could argue that's less travel and also I think she'd rather see him

Any help is useful- Again, not looking for loopholes, just concerned for my child who has been abandoned by her uni, the health service's and basically ghosted by her doctor, despite contacting them several times

These issues would be helped significantly if she lived alone and could form a support bubble, but unfortunately her house share means she's not a single adult, even if they just breeze past each other in the kitchen

I would think it falls under the care exception that exists specifically to allow support bubbles for disabled people (whether mental disability or physical disability).
I think your household of two could be support bubble for her AND she and can be support bubble for him (even though it’s more for her) as he is a lone adult, he has a right to a support bubble for himself even if not disabled/requiring care.

Here is link showing you can be carer support bubble during lockdown
www.homecare.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1633733/care-bubbles-exempt-from-interhousehold-mixing-ban-in-Englands-lockdown-areas

Caring for a vulnerable person is allowed. Clearly your daughter is vulnerable and you would be providing care.

It's not about breaking or flexing the rules.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I would think it falls under the care exception that exists specifically to allow support bubbles for disabled people (whether mental disability or physical disability). I think your household of two could be support bubble for her AND she and can be support bubble for him (even though it’s more for her) as he is a lone adult, he has a right to a support bubble for himself even if not disabled/requiring care.

No that isn't correct. IF either/both are allowed a support bubble she can only pick one as you can only be in one support bubble. She couldn't be in one with her parents and one with her boyfriend regardless if he is allowed one or not (although it sounds like he is living with others sp isn't anyway).

Sorry I meant to add that he is living in post grad accommodation but as it has shared kitchen facilities, he is not a "lone adult."
I honestly feel so sorry for adults in houseshares- I remember living with people I barely knew and I imagine that's the case for a lot of young adults

Thank you for the link

Also to clarify it would either be her partner or us- we would not heighten the risk and both see her.

I would see her anyway, whether its in the rules or not. Providing youre not clinically vulnerable and seeing lots of other people.

As someone who has been young, with a personality disorder, metal health issues, moderate to severe self harm and suicidal tendancies, please, please just fuck the covid rules. She needs you. If it is bad enough for her to be asking for help, she needs you. If none of you are at direct heightned risk to covid, do whatever needs to be done.

I don't have a clue if it's permitted or not. It needs to happen though.

Yes I think it would come under care of the vulnerable. The only thing to be aware of is it would increase the risk of everyone in her houseshare so shoud probably be a conversation to have with her housemates.

Would it be possible for her to reach out to her housemates for low-level support? Stuff like coffee dates and movie nights? It sounds really twee and stupid but a little bit of connection could help, maybe?

None of us are vulnerable, me and DH have both had COVID recently, mildly. We don't directly see anyone vulnerable

We absolutely would see her inside if she asked outright, and have seen her regularly outside, it's only the last few days she's confided in me. However I will be telling her today that if she needs to see us properly then it's fine

She will need to speak to her housemates but from what she's said none of them have been following much anyway so shouldn't be an issue- Not massive rule breaks or parties, but still not exactly conscious of the rules

@mousehold.
I think you are wrong. Each vulnerable person, the DD, is allowed support bubbles with carers from other households. The bubble can include relatives/friends from more than one other household. So she can have her parents and her fiancé as care bubbles. This exception was allowed so that unpaid carers can share the burden of caring for disabled or elderly people.
“The government’s announcement to allow unpaid carers to continue to provide care to a vulnerable person and form care bubbles in areas of local lockdown will be appreciated by carers, and provide them with reassurance that they and other family members will be able to continue to provide essential care for their older or disabled relatives.”

In addition, the DDs fiancé as a sole adult living alone is ALSO allowed to choose a household of any size as HIS support bubble. To lower risk, he CAN choose the DD as HIS bubble instead of choosing a friend or his own family.

There is nothing in the rules saying you cannot pick for your support bubble someone who has a caring support bubble of their own. The caring support bubbles are not limited to one bubble and do not count as they are a legal exception.

None of us are vulnerable, me and DH have both had COVID recently, mildly. We don't directly see anyone vulnerable

Your DD is classed as a vulnerable adult. Vulnerable in this context doesn’t mean vulnerable to Covid, but an adult in need of carers due to mental/physical disability or old age.

Unless you are isolating you are putting her and her housemates at risk.....or testing pre meeting in some way... are they happy with that risk ? And people they are contacting..

Legally it's a bit of a grey area (although I think you can argue "care of the vulnerable" which you don't need to be in a support bubble to do).

Morally, it's a no brainier for me. Give your daughter the support she requires, you'd never forgive yourself if you didn't and anything was to happen to her.

Oh just seeing that the fiancé lives in a shared household in uni accommodation.

I think it is still ok because care bubbles are not the same as support bubbles and are exempt from the one household limit. For example, many volunteer organisations involve multiple carers caring for multiple households with vulnerable adults. This is even more low risk.

“The goal of a care bubble is to allow people to share their care duties, thereby protecting carers’ mental health as well as the individual being cared for.”

“This means that during the current restrictions you can arrange with family or friends for someone else to provide the care you normally provide to the person you care for, to enable you to take a break. This includes someone coming into the home of the person you care for, which can be overnight. It also means the person you care for can go to someone else’s home to receive care to give you a break from caring, which can also be overnight. In all these examples, the arrangement must be reasonably necessary for the purpose of respite care being provided for the person being cared for.

The number of adults in either household does not matter when making arrangements for respite care, provided the arrangements are reasonably necessary and amount to respite care provided to the person being cared for. What is suitable for you, the person you care for and the person providing the alternative care will depend on your own circumstances.”

@Shimea34

Sorry I meant to add that he is living in post grad accommodation but as it has shared kitchen facilities, he is not a "lone adult." I honestly feel so sorry for adults in houseshares- I remember living with people I barely knew and I imagine that's the case for a lot of young adults

Thank you for the link

I'm not sure about England, but in Wales, people in HMOs are counted as single households for this reason, and can form a support bubble gov.wales/visiting-people-private-homes-alert-level-4

Which is more of a danger to you and your daughter - her current MH problems, or the risk of covid? From what you've said, it's MH problems. On those grounds, fuck the rules, do what's right for your daughter.

That said, providing care is within the rules, and you can mix households for this reason. Go and provide care for her!

I would say it is absolutely fine to support her.

I would see her anyway, whether its in the rules or not. Providing youre not clinically vulnerable and seeing lots of other people.

This

Can she not stay at yours on the sofa or something for a bit??
Its not really fair on her housemates..
Or can you help with funding her own place to live then you can bubble...or her fiance can..
What was the plan when she moved there/you downsized if she had a crisis?