Is this the end of schools as we know them?

[Elephant4]

Teachers are leaving in droves.

This new variant will not come down to acceptable R levels for a long time, will it?

How will schools open up to ALL students without a government strategical plan in place? There doesn’t seem to be one.

Is our school system about to collapse alongside the NHS?

No I don’t think this is true. I totally understand that many of them are frustrated, but that’s society in general at the moment.
The teachers at my children’s school are providing a full days learning, most of it delivered live. I think they are doing a good job and I for one am grateful my children can be self sufficient at home with the work provided. It’s no substitute for physical school but it was never going to be.

We've had 4 teachers quit last term already. More would if they could but realistically won't because they need their jobs.
I think what we will see is less teachers willing to go above and beyond after these unrealistic expectations and the constant bitching we've had from some parents.
Last term my Headteacher expected me to carry on teaching online from hospital when I was admitted very unwell, because we had the set up for it, ostensibly in case we had to isolate for 2 weeks. We've always had to set cover when ill but this is an appalling and unacceptable expectation that I can sadly see becoming standard.

I absolutely think that’s a valid concern for both education and the NHS. There’s only so far civic duty can take you in the face of being told you’re lazy, not doing your job, suck it up, we don’t care if you at risk of illness or don’t feel safe at work, we’re doing your job while you sit at home (despite having worked all the hours). And as for the oncoming recession which will drive people into teaching, they may do the training but most don’t stick. I think teachers (maybe nurses too) will/are leaving in large numbers and will be competing with others in the private sector.
Schools will have to adapt.

Everyone going into a workplace is putting themselves at a risk they did not anticipate when signing up for the job, many on minimum wage, and frequently under duress from badly behaved members of the public.

There is also going to be a proportion of the public who are abusive or rude and creating additional risk. There are always going to be jobs where you are more at risk from pathogens.

I think there will now be another option of homeschooling as we are now (for free, maybe) online. I've always thought we'd end up like this one day and that in person schools would end. I always imagined that kids would be sat in classrooms learning from screens.

Nonsense. How could parents go out to work if dc were at home learning? Or how could kids be in schools learning from screens with no supervision? You haven't thought this through.

There's plenty wrong with schools, education funding and the attitude towards and treatment of teachers, but that doesn't mean schools will stop existing. Also, like pp have said, there's been a recruitment and retention crisis in teaching for years. Now is the first time for ages that more people are applying and fewer people are leaving, because the job market in other sectors is so precarious.

No

Everyone going into a relationship risks being in an abusive one but once that happens and is recognised the advice is always to get yourself out of that relationship. I don’t really see why this is acceptable or minimised in the workplace?

Er no op I definitely don't agree.

Have you also read here and elsewhere that we have the mother of all recessions coming, and the one place many of those professionals will choose to move into (much to our children's benefit) will be the teaching sector. For a guaranteed job with lots of holidays, and recession proof it is a great profession.

I don't think we are going to run out of teachers, no.
I don't think schools will close in our life time or the next, no.

If anything schools will become more valued and highly regarded, most took our schooling experience for granted before this.

So I am feeling great about our return in early spring personally

Maths, Chemistry, DT, MFL and physics failed to meet their trainee recruitment targets for Sept 2020 despite the pandemic. Physics, in particular, was dire.

Physics teacher recruitment has always been dire. Mostly because there are so few physics graduates from which to recruit. But there is no doubt that recruitment (and retention) in general is up. Obviously as soon as there are other options that might change

Not at all, though there may be some shortage in some subjects, which may not be new. For all those who having to cope with the difficulties leads them to leave the profession, there will be some who stay longer because of lack of alternatives.

‘Everyone going into a relationship risks being in an abusive one but once that happens and is recognised the advice is always to get yourself out of that relationship. I don’t really see why this is acceptable or minimised in the workplace?’

Because somebody has to do those jobs. What is the alternative?

There are several alternatives (one of which the OP is alluding to which is the collapse of our essential services and everything essentially being privatised) none as desirable as providing safe working conditions, showing respect (and reputable social status), providing resources to adequately do jobs, providing support in community and providing adequate pay. People wonder where this money will come from, but it will cost more to try to rebuild from nothing.

I know of 3 teachers who have quit for Easter. If I could afford it I would too. And where I live we can't attract a teacher for love or money. We've had posts filled with supply for 2 years.

A pandemic might lure students to do a pgce but, as it is at the moment, the retention levels are not likely to increase. The vast majority of trainees leave within 5 years, if not sooner. The increased pressure and shittier working conditions during and post-pandemic are unlikely to improve that.

I don’t see how those are alternatives. Ultimately many people have to work with the public and a proportion of the public are abusive. A proportion of the public are psychopaths.

There is no way of organising a society which doesn’t involve many of us having to work with the public.

@Jaypreen

That may the case for you and I'm happy for you. I on the other hand have a seven year old. I can't leave her in front of a few tasks sent via Microsoft teams whilst I try to have meetings and send emails desperately trying to keep my job. Impossible.

Teacher's unions are taking the piss. The schools should be open and they know it

Teacher unions haven't closed schools. The government did.

I'd think there's more chance of remote learning happening in school as the norm. Instead of each class having a qualified teacher there would be an adult for crowd control, not educational support.

@YouBoughtMeAWall

Attendance is everything. In a normal academic year at my school, there is an expectation that learners attend in person at least 95% of the time.

When learners are off for extended periods of time through no fault of their own (for instance they may be hospitalised) work is already provided.

However, I cannot see schools making it easier for parents and children to opt out of school through choice, when the impact on our attendance figures will be negative.

Additionally the time it takes to adapt and upload online learning means that no SLT will expect teachers to abandon their timetable/classes to set short term online work, for instance if a child has to miss a day because they have S&D. Contrary to popular belief, setting work over Teams or Google Classroom is a fairly time consuming thing that demands focus.

There is also the issue of assuming the child has access to IT. We won’t provide a laptop for a child if they are off sick for a week, so we will not have in place a policy that disadvantages some children over others, when they are off ill.

Therefore, I don’t think you can expect offers of extended online learning, supported by usual classroom teachers, that will be of any other quality than ‘this will tide you over until you get back’.

I’m sorry, I know you desperately want to think otherwise, but schools are usually judged by their attendance figures, so they want your children back as quickly as possible and teachers are very busy individuals, who begin work well before the learners in the morning and finish much later than the learners in the evening. There simply isn’t time to provide individualised, high quality learning for every child who is off sick one day.

How will this change teaching?

I'm going to use a webcam, so that I can show students exactly what I'm typing in to my calculator.

Game changing!

Pandemics don’t last forever.

For many teachers who have taught from home, they have been forced to embrace many new ways of teaching.

I think we have all learned much from this experience and, ultimately, education will be better for it.

I think we have all also learned how badly schools in the state sector are funded (around 25% of funding per pupil compared to private schools). Although state schools do not need to become the educational country clubs many private schools have become, they do need enough to have buildings fit for purpose and not to have to continually look for cheap teachers.

I think, in the medium term, educational will emerge stronger from this.

However, I cannot see schools making it easier for parents and children to opt out of school through choice, when the impact on our attendance figures will be negative.

If the child was logging on and doing the work daily they wouldn’t be marked as absent. Schools already have different codes for marking attendance if a child isn’t physically in school for different reasons.

Additionally the time it takes to adapt and upload online learning means that no SLT will expect teachers to abandon their timetable/classes to set short term online work, for instance if a child has to miss a day because they have S&D. Contrary to popular belief, setting work over Teams or Google Classroom is a fairly time consuming thing that demands focus.

Like I said upthread- it’s already being done.

I understand the objections teachers have to this. But it will happen. How anyone can realistically say it won’t is just ridiculous.

@MsJaneAusten

Yes. It’s going to change snow days forever.

Bloody online learning. I’m gutted.

🤣🤣🤣

I can only speak for London, but teacher recruitment here has been an issue for at least 10 years. It’s exactly the same in nurseries (I have owned a nursery and a prep school so have experience of recruiting for both).

No one will admit the reason on here, but the truth is that the majority of teachers and nursery staff in London would rather do supply work. It’s well paid, there’s plenty of it and it comes without any responsibilities at all - they can simply work when they want, get paid for the hours they do and not have to do any paperwork.

If the DfE overhauled the regulations around teaching agencies, it would solve the problem, but it will never happen.

I imagine it is exactly the same with nurses as well.

EYProvider you are spot on! In London cost of living makes the average full time teacher pay scales challenging.

I know many who have either gone more lucrative private tutoring route or supply locum due to market supply and demand economics to their advantage. Personally I believe many professionals are incorrectly market priced. Many too low and some too high but that is another debate all together!

Why on earth would this situation make teachers in particular quit? We haven't been any more hard done by than anyone else, and are in secure careers on the whole. I don't know any teachers or support staff that have quit over this or have any plans to.