RHS is Open for Exercise - How can this possibly fit with Gov. Guidelines

[BigWoollyJumpers]

Following the upgrade of the UK’s coronavirus risk to the highest level and the latest Government guidelines announced on 4 January 2021, the RHS is pleased to confirm that the four RHS Gardens, RHS Garden Wisley, RHS Garden Hyde Hall, RHS Garden Rosemoor and RHS Garden Harlow Carr, can remain open for exercise.
Given the significant rise in cases of coronavirus across the UK, we ask that everyone considering visiting the gardens does not travel outside of their local area, defined in the latest Government guidelines as the village, town, or part of the city where they live

All sounds reasonable. However, you cannot access Wisley without your car, and no-one apart from the handful of houses in Wisley village, could possibly be defined as local.

The government need to define better what "reasonable" is. I would have to leave my village, and bypass my town, to get to Wisley, but it is only 10mins up the road, about 6 miles. This would apply to the many NT places also open in and around Surrey. If they are open, they are open to visitors from the surrounding area, but you HAVE to leave you village or town to access them.

I may be wrong, by wasnt it back in summer defined as you can ndrive for exercise as long as the exercise is longer than the drive?
There's an NT place the other side of our small town. Not that much further than Asda or the council tip. Would take us 25mins to drive i reckon, maybe less. We do the 15-20min to asda weekly, i would count that as local.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

Wow. A megaphone in the park. See it's stuff like that and the bloody drone that scares me.

That is enforcing made up rules for the sake of it and not actually managing risk.

I had a conversation on another thread with a poster who couldn't see the scary aspects

When I listed what I saw on the way to the park and in the park, she seemed genuinely shocked. I might be unlucky with the borough or local police chiefs?

My sister, in another place, has been politely asked by police to move along when she stopped to smell some flowers. She said yes and moved on.

There was no chance of that here as the lilac trees in the park, just two of them, had big yellow boards in front saying "you are on CCTV - DO NOT STOP HERE".

I'm a long term MH patient, depression and anxiety. I stopped going out and became suicidal - easy to sort in a tall building. I was stopped by a neighbour.

I was grateful to her but not so sure now! 😂

That's the thing isn't it. Local means different things depending on context. Where I grew up very rurally our 'local' town was 45 mins drive away and we did that journey very often to get to a supermarket or clothes shops etc.

If you live in a City centre there won't be anywhere you can go for a proper walk in 'your part of town' so I think you should be allowed to drive.

Who would drive a really long way just for a very short walk anyway? It'd just be a waste of time even under normal circumstances. For my 10-30 min drive I'd do at last a 1.5h-2 hr walk.

they're in danger of losing the public good faith here arent they

I went to Wisley yesterday and live further away than 6 miles away! Kids had a fantastic time and did us all good. My mum goes two or three times a week.

Wisley is just a privately owned park, you have to pre-book your arrival time. Yesterday it was pretty quiet.

Parks (including Wisley) are not the problem. If they do close nurseries I'll be there a lot more!

Growing up in London, my 'local' area was anywhere I could walk to. When I lived in North Yorkshire, I was anywhere with a 45min drive. When I lived in Cyprus, it was pretty much the whole eastern part of the island, including using my passport to go across the border into the Turkish zone. Local definitely depends where you are.

Nobody seems to know how far we're allowed to drive or how to be sure to avoid being fined for driving too far. Sounds like a risky outing to me (if you don't want police grief).

And national trust places (grounds).

Not to mention the non-essential shops and businesses, the cafes that are allowed to sell takeaways while leaving your house for a takeaway is not on the list of permitted reasons... And you can be fined for walking holding a coffee (in Derbyshire) or sitting on a bench (Dorset).

The government and police are enforcing legislation that does not exist. Even the Guidance says you can travel for exercise 'within your area' (no definition of 'area').

If the government really believe we should not be travelling for exercise within in our 'area' (including RHS and NT) they will have to man up and enact that into the legislation. We have a government that believes itself to be libertarian, but in fact is preventing people from doing the exercise that is permitted under the Guidance and allowing/encouraging the police to fine people for travelling short distances (e.g. 5 miles) for this exercise.

I mean I'm not terrified and I wouldn't argue or anything but getting stopped by police is a bit scary to me even if I have done nothing wrong and definitely to my kids. I would certainly want to avoid it.

My elderly dad was stopped by police in the first lockdown collecting my mums cancer meds from hospital (hospital only meds). He didn't expect it and hadn't taken her hospital letter. I think they were perfectly polite and let him on his way but he was a bit shaken up and now is more reluctant to go out even where clearly necessary.

I interact with the police a bit in my job and I know them to be good professional people but my heart starts to beat a bit faster if I see a roadblock or blue lights behind me even though I've done nothing wrong and had no bad experiences.
I am a little bit scared of the police and this would stop me from pushing any boundaries or taking a chance so I would rather things were just very clear.

And obviously outdoor door exercise is not the cause of case numbers rising (especially not travelling safely by car to quieter areas of open countryside)

it is an easy and visible way of policing, while ignoring the harder policing work of non-essential businesses remaining open.

@lljkk

No fine would be upheld with the law as it stands. I would refuse any fixed penalty notice and force them to take me to court. I'd be very surprised if they bother and if they did I am certain they would not be successful.

I went to Wisley several times last year, and even when the car parks were full it never seemed crowded (except on the final occasion when we went for the 'glow' event when everyone had to walk the same route).

It's about half an hour drive for me, so I won't be going again until lockdown is over, but I'd have thought a 10 min drive would be fine

I think roadblocks are quite stupid and pointless too and will scare more law abiding people than they catch law breakers

They need to be breaking up illegal gatherings, fining non essential businesses and maybe patrolling crowded areas to remind about distancing.

We drove for 10 minutes yesterday to go for a walk in some local woods. Whilst we saw lots of other people there, we were easily able to socially distance with there being several metres between us and any other person/group at all times.
On the way home, DH dropped me off at the corner shop in the village to buy some groceries and I walked the few hundred yards home from there. It was madness. So many people out walking, running, roller skating, scooting and cycling all on the same narrow pavements. I considered taking a longer route along a footpath but, as I turned into it, saw an acquaintance who warned me against it as it is narrow with a hedge on one side and a fence on the other so no where to stand to one side. I felt much, much safer in the woods.

@Frazzled2207

totally agree that 'local' should be better defined ,and I would say travelling up to 10 miles or so (as long as it's not all the time) is ok.

But I think there's an inherent unfairness to it all. I live on the outskirts of greater manchester where I have easy access to the peak district for walks. Relatively easy to find walks which are really quiet and safe. It seems inherently unfair to say to people that live more centrally in Manchester can't do that, especially as green spaces in the city are very few and far between and the ones that there are will be heaving.

I think this is why its so hard to actually define what is reasonable/permissible.

It's completely unreasonable for anyone living in my parents' tiny rural village to drive anywhere for exercise. They're surrounded by open green spaces, footpaths and cycle paths, quiet lanes etc. It's also completely unreasonable to expect anyone living in the HMOs or blocks of flats near us NOT to drive to exercise while the gyms are shut, the parks are crowded and there's a dual carriageway between them and any other green space. Especially when there are more people travelling around than there were in lockdown 1 and the roads are busier.

I disagree with the poster about roadblocks. In some places such as where people are trying to go to second homes (not allowed) I would support them. Though probably too late now.

My assumption is that if the Govt are allowing these places to be open then citizens are allowed to use them.

Personally I'm not going to take the 45 min drive to Wisley as I feel that's a bit much but I have met up with friends for exercise 30 mins drive from home which is where all my friends are. I count this as local.

I realise other people wouldn't count that as local but if no-one actually defines it then c'est la vie. I'm not increasing the COVID risk and we're not walking anywhere that's liable to get crowded (like a natural beauty spot where people come from all over for example).

Equally on my lunch break at work tomorrow I'll be using the Costa drive through. If I wasn't supposed to because it isn't 'essential' then it shouldn't be open!

Local = stay in your county Although that could still be miles

Local = stay within ten miles of your home

BUT how can they do this when you have to drive twenty miles to work in an office because the boss likes you all where he can see you

Short drives to access less crowded but still 'local' areas seems like a good idea - I hope the government/police organisations issue more specific guidance as they did before.

However, even if that's not allowed, look at it the other way. It would be frustrating if you do live within walking or cycling distance of Wisley but couldn't go in. And in the case of some of the others eg Harlow Carr, that's very accessible to lots of locals in Harrogate.

Wanting these places closed because you can't access them seems like a dog in the manger attitude.

We live near a county border though...I can drive 5 mins and be in another county.

I can drive 45 mins the other way and still be in the same county.

For me 20-30 min drive is 'local' as I drive further than that to work.

If they don't want people making their own interpretation they could easily define it (e.g. no more than 5 or 10 miles for example unless it's for work/care/medical reasons).

Why does this have to be a problem? If places are permitted to be open, you can visit them. You have to decide for yourself what distance you're comfortable with. Setting a specific distance would not be helpful because travelling 6 miles in London and 6 miles in a rural location are incomparable. Setting boundaries on local authority areas is not helpful because people could live right on a boundary or dozens of miles from one.

You don't need to have exactly the same collective understanding to be able to cope with these guidelines. People just need to make their own choices, accept that other people will decide on something shorter or longer, and mind their own business.

If they don't want people making their own interpretation they could easily define it

It has been defined quite tightly, as quoted in the RHS statement in the OP.

village, town, or part of the city where they live

The problem is it's not exactly prescriptive, and it doesn't really map fairly to all locations. A whole town v a tiny village?

But in the context of the OPs complaint, I'd much rather the few villagers in Wiseley and the many townsfolk of Harrogate can make use of these gardens than that no one can.

It's a problem for me if the police are going to try to enforce something which obviously, from the responses on this thread, no-one can actually define.

I am happy with making my own judgement. In my judgement driving anywhere less than 30 mins to a booked NT parkland for a walk with just my household is reasonable.

But I do not want to encounter a police officer who feels otherwise.

I wouldn't be dog in the manger about it if I couldn't go either. I wouldn't want them all shut.