Could chip and pin machines, self service tills and cash points be super spreaders?

[Fudgecakes]

Seems logical to me? Think of how many different pairs of hands are using these keypads! Unless they are sanitised between uses (difficult...but at tills i feel a spritz with sanitiser after each customer is reasonably do-able). I always use gallons of hand sanitiser after using, but I bet a lot if people don't bother. Maybe the contactless limit of £45 should be raised for the short term to say £100 or removed completely? I know it's there to protect if your card is stolen but a thief could do 2 £45 contactless transactions as easy as 1 £100 one 🤷‍♀️. I just wonder if we weren't all using these keypads it might help a bit??

The chances of getting a high enough viral load to cause infection from chip and pin machines or a self check out screen are really small. As others have said, sanitise before and after if you’re concerned.

Yes shared contact areas are potential sources of infection
In ‘covid secure’ workplaces we are cleaning door handles, light switches, anywhere people touch several times a day

Although the general vibe im getting us this is old news, I'm sanitising etc

Yep, you said it, loads of posters have been washing their shopping, quarantining their deliveries and sanitising everything since March, where have you been

In our Waitrose the self service tills screens and chip and pin pads are spritzed and wiped after pretty much every use

No.
I don't think covid is transmitted this way.

@Oblomov20

No. I don't think covid is transmitted this way.

Sorry - you are wrong. Viral plumes are exhales by infected person, you can inhale these plumes and catch covid, or you could touch a surface that these viral plumes have landed on, touch your face and become infected That is why shared contact surfaces are to be regularly sanitised.

Formite transmission is still on the table but also, we now know that aerosol is a way of catching it, maybe the most dominant way

Back in the early days, the emphasis was on formite transmission, door handles, wash hands, don't touch face etc. This isn't a criticism of that advice, because this is a new virus and science was still learning.

Any discussion on here back then about "airborne" was blocked by many posters with cries of "stop scare mongering", even with some threads being removed. Again kind of understandable, but some of those blocked or shouted down were posting reliable sources, of reputable scientists just starting to understand it. It turns out they were right

Supermarket have got to be a main source of infection. Think about it. Some of these places have low ceilings, no ventilation, thousands of people in and out all day long. All breathing in and out the same air. This is why it is so important to get in and out as quickly as possible and not browse and only shop for essentials

Look at the way measles is so infectious. I'm not saying covid is as infectious as measles, thankfully it isn't, nowhere near as, but measles can be caught by someone alone in a room, not touching anything, breathing the same air as someone infected who had left that room hours ago. A sobering thought

Formite transmission is still on the table...

Pun not intended

". And there's little need to use ATMs when we're supposedly to be paying contactless as much as possible."
We're also meant to be shopping as infrequently as possible, therefore spending more per shop, quite a bit more than the contact less limit surely.
I can't believe the first few responses told the op what an idiot she was being. Have they not spotted the hand gel/wiping surfaces down focus? Why, exactly, do they think these measures are necessary?

My ds works in a supermarket and in the first lockdown he said that the majority of people used sanitiser after using self checkout and now very few do. This is only what he sees so they may be doing once they get to the store exit. My concern is that you touch the keypad, you then touch your card, bag, purse, keys etc before actually washing your hands

It was in the Andrew marr show this morning. A guy said that we should be sterilising tills and keypads more regularly. Not sure who the guy was, public health? Download it and see.

@Fudgecakes

Not if you alcohol your hands before and after!

@Fudgecakes

But virus lives 72 hours on plastic and steel. So that’s the only way to be sure.

Cards have been identified as The risk and many banks wouldn't even let you use them at the counter, even in the US!
I'm always wash and douse cards and hand after using anything to do with them.. If I have to press nos in I use little finger or knuckle.

Not going to get worked up over this one. I carry hand gel with me and use when I leave the shop. Mainly so I can pig the "sharing" bag of crisps on the way home :P

Yes I use my own hand gel when I leave the shop (in my case so I can swig an iced coffee in the car!).

Yes, surfaces do spread diseases....not just COVID but all sorts...coughs, colds, e-coli. Sneeze droplets on surfaces, unwashed hands touching surfaces leave bacteria and viruses...therefore likely that COVID will be spread that way too. It's why healthcare professionals have to wash their hands all the time, and why, in their training, there is a session where hands are sprayed with ultraviolet liquid and then they go about their business, eg. writing on a clipboard, making a coffee, making a bed. When the activation light is switched on, the 'glow' from every surface touched is unbelievable, this is one way that disease spreads across surfaces and then others touch them...

However, having said that, you need to touch the same surface and then touch yourself without washing your hands first. You can transfer viruses by rubbing your eyes, touching your face, putting fingers in mouth or touching food and then eating it. If you wash your hands and then sanitise too, you are likely to have removed most of the virus.

I can't understand why more people don't use gloves instead. I put a clean pair on every time I go out/go shopping/touch the PIN machine/fill up with petrol. I take them off (peeling them off inside out) after every visit and discard them safely. Each task, a new pair of gloves. Makes sense in the current climate surely?

Lots of retail aren't cleaning the pads (or anything else) it's fine to say 'sanitise' your hands, but the community spread is the problem. Several
People not sanitising, taking it home, spreading it.

Then when they get it they assume it was from work/school as they haven't been anywhere else.

Cases overseas that have fewer cases & backward contact tracing have found the 'contact' with a lift button & another one a bin with a touch top lid.

Companies not sanitising frequently shoukd be fined. (Need secret sanitiser checkers like secret shoppers)

@WanderingMilly

Yes, surfaces do spread diseases....not just COVID but all sorts...coughs, colds, e-coli. Sneeze droplets on surfaces, unwashed hands touching surfaces leave bacteria and viruses...therefore likely that COVID will be spread that way too. It's why healthcare professionals have to wash their hands all the time, and why, in their training, there is a session where hands are sprayed with ultraviolet liquid and then they go about their business, eg. writing on a clipboard, making a coffee, making a bed. When the activation light is switched on, the 'glow' from every surface touched is unbelievable, this is one way that disease spreads across surfaces and then others touch them...

However, having said that, you need to touch the same surface and then touch yourself without washing your hands first. You can transfer viruses by rubbing your eyes, touching your face, putting fingers in mouth or touching food and then eating it. If you wash your hands and then sanitise too, you are likely to have removed most of the virus.

I can't understand why more people don't use gloves instead. I put a clean pair on every time I go out/go shopping/touch the PIN machine/fill up with petrol. I take them off (peeling them off inside out) after every visit and discard them safely. Each task, a new pair of gloves. Makes sense in the current climate surely?

Advice is NOT to sanitise after washing your hands

Gloves - not necessarily a good idea. Many people are less careful when using gloves.

It's up to customers to use their own sanitiser as necessary, but shop staff are required to clean down surfaces regularly including chip and pin devices.

The only problem I've found (as staff) is when customers are impatient about not being served while we do a clean of tills etc.

@RaspberryCoulis. ?

If the virus is in a surface and you touch it and then touch your eyes nose or mouth then of course you can catch it .

Honestly . The info is out there .

That’s why benches in parks and playgrounds were closed and you could not share mugs cutlery etc.

@Flaxmeadow

Exactly

Just as @falsealarm1 said, unless you sanitise/wash hands immediately after touching a shared surface, you could have unwittingly xferred virus to multiple things you then might touch again after sanitising which have then become infected.....it's a bit mind boggling but it makes sense. Unless people are absolutely scrupulous about sanitising straight away after touching shared surfaces ...it's a possible infection means even though it might be small risk. Just think with the amount of keypad transactions taking place every day, being contactless every time might help....even if it stops a handful of infections/deaths 🤷‍♀️