Is this allowed??

[JustAnotherUserinParadise]

Hi all, looking for some help here as the guidelines don't seem totally clear!

We (DH and I) are due our first baby in February. The grandparents (my parents and DHs mum) are obviously very keen to meet the baby ASAP, but it looks likely we'll still be in lockdown.

Households: (1) DH and I live together, with nobody else, (2) my parents also live together, with nobody else, (3) MIL lives alone (widowed), she is currently in a support bubble with SIL but I'm assuming would be willing to change that.

I'm thinking we're allowed to meet up if mil switches her single-person bubble to bubble with us (isolating for 10 days in between), and since we will then have a child under 1 we can make another bubble with my parents as well?

Is my interpretation right? We are all pretty far apart geographically, my parents are 4 hours drive and mil just under 2. But the distance thing seems more guidelines than actual law?

Bottom line: we really want them to meet the baby, but we don't want to break the law (guidelines maybe though)!

From this, I'm thinking we can see both my parents and mil, just with 10 days of isolation in between?

If MIL is your childcare bubble, she can still see SIL as her support bubble.

Obviously got to also consider the actual risks involved, but it would all be within the law.

[quote JustAnotherUserinParadise]@BridgertonBride it wouldn't just be "showing the kid off"! We want our parents around for advice, practical help, emotional support etc...[/quote]
You will get that from the one support bubble you’re allowed, you don’t need two.

You're not talking about a support bubble though, are you, you're talking about a "meet the baby" bubble . A "bubble" including you, DH & baby; MIL; & your parents, from 3 separate households. Pretty big bubble there...

I think the "child under 1" bubble is not the same thing as a "childcare bubble"??

Your mil can't form a bubble with you because she is already in a bubble with sil and you are already in a bubble with your parents

I don't know if this would be allowed but your mil could end the bubble with sil...MOVE IN with you for the whole lockdown (meaning she would be art of your household)...then your household could then bubble with your parents...but like I said, I don know if even that would be allowed

@caffeinebuzz

If MIL is your childcare bubble, she can still see SIL as her support bubble.

Obviously got to also consider the actual risks involved, but it would all be within the law.

A childcare bubble is just for childcare, you can socialise with the adults. I’m sure the op would not want MIL taking her newborn away for childcare.

Without sounding horrendously harsh 2 of you to 1 baby unless any major medical issues you'll be fine.
Keeping safe is the most important thing .
Just because something allows doesn't eliminate risk people just need to stop mixing.

We would all be getting tests done before mixing anyway, so there'd be no risk of actually spreading covid anyway (if we had it)

@JustAnotherUserinParadise

I think the "child under 1" bubble is not the same thing as a "childcare bubble"??

No it isn’t, a child under one bubble is a support bubble like the single person one. You can only have one and act like a single household, no distancing. A childcare bubble is different, again only one is allowed and you can’t socialise/be in the room with the adults, it’s purely for childcare reasons.

@rwalker I agree, and up until now we've followed every rule and guideline perfectly, but I'm sure you can imagine that our first child (and the first grandchild on both sides) means we'd like to find a way if we can!

@JustAnotherUserinParadise

From this, I'm thinking we can see both my parents and mil, just with 10 days of isolation in between?

the rules say you stick to the support bubble you make. You can change support bubble if circumstances mean you really need to but shouldn’t really do this. Stop trying to bend the rules to suit what you want, it’s not legal. Seriously there are many of us who have had to go through this with no support, and family yet to meet babies, you’re lucky you get one bubble!

The child are bubble has to be for childcare though not just an extra bubble. No wonder it’s spreading so rapidly with all these tenuous ‘bubbles’.

@Mousehole10 it says you can change your support bubble though

Someone got fined recently for driving five miles so I think that four hours distance goes beyond pushing it.

As everyone has said, that's not legal.

Also you're assuming about your MIL/SIL, will your MIL be happy leaving her on her own?

It shit for those having babies in lockdown. My neighbours parents haven't met their grandson yet and he's getting bigger daily.

I’m in a similar situation OP. I have a baby under 1 and bubbled with my parents as per the guidelines. My brother (lives alone and is vulnerable) has also been bubbling with them from the start. It’s a bit of a grey area as the original bubble advice said once bubbled, you can treat as one household.
the new guidance for families with babies says you “can bubble with one other household” - does this mean my parents original household of just themselves, or their new bubbled status household inc my brother?
I’m honesty, I think you are probably only allowed to bubble with either your parents or your MIL, not both.
I’ve actually left the bubble now anyway since the latest wave and elder DD back to nursery.

I'm sure that loads of people with a baby would like to 'find a way' but the fact is there isn't a way in the middle of a global pandemic when 1300 people died in a single day, 80,000 people have died and the NHS is in crisis. Yes, you'll probably be careful but I've heard of plenty of other people who have very carefully gone against restrictions and guidance and still caught/spread it. Saying you'll break covid restrictions carefully is like saying that you are going to walk through a minefield but you'll be ok because you are going to do it 'carefully'. Only in this instance, you are dragging your family and everyone you come into contact with into the minefield with you.

Thanks @OllietheOwl, (and the other few posters that haven't jumped down my throat!) I think from the sound of this we'll have to pick one of them, then isolate and see the other later.

Plenty of us had babies in the original lockdown and nobody could see our newborns or support us. You can have one support bubble only, and it's for support, not to show the baby off. If you care about 'the spirit' of lockdown anyway.

It does cheese me off how people look for loopholes in the rules to validate their choices. You will probably do whatever you intend anyway, so don't expect other people on the internet to tell you it's OK. There are plenty of people on here (like me) who have their noses out of joint because the pandemic started part way through our pregnancies and everything we had planned for was turned on it's head. I couldn't even have one support bubble when DD was born. It was DH and me, and he is a key worker so has been out at work five days a week to boot.

When is the baby due? First ones are notoriously good at running 2 weeks late?! Given vaccine targets and spring approaching we might be in a very different position in early March. Perhaps hold off making any decisions just yet and plan a couple of weeks getting to know your newborn just you and DH?

I’m sure lots of other first time mums will attest that the first couple of weeks are overwhelming and hormonal. You don’t know what kind of birth you are going to have and sleep deprivation is a big factor.. no way I’d want to be driving 4 hours! Use the lockdown as an excuse to keep things really simple.. comfy pjs and a freezer full of food?!

Think about your two bubble argument. You said you guys + your mum = one household, therefore you think can bubble with another person (you can't). So why do you think MIL needs to stop being in a support bubble with SIL's family? Are they not one household too? No of course not, because that would effectively be four households, or two support bubbles.

Can you see how ridiculous this could get if everyone stretched their interpretation of the rules to fit their needs?

It will be fine if you don't see your families right away, in fact you may find it far too overwhelming to host people who live a long way away, and you won't want to travel to them just after having a baby. Realistically how much practical support can they offer anyway living so far away?

I think the rules will have relaxed a bit by then, hopefully, so it will be easier to meet up with them, even if it's outside for a bit. Please don't be tempted just to breach the rules so everyone can coo over your new baby, the last thing any of you need at that point is covid.

@Fieldofyellowflowers I'm absolutely not debating the seriousness of the pandemic!
And we'd hardly be "dragging" them - they all want to see us and the baby, and are competent adults capable of assessing their own acceptable risk levels!

No it’s not allowed. One bubble only. You may want to show them the baby but why put everyone in a position to break rules.

Added to which everyone is to stay local. 2 hours away and 4 hours away is not local

Appreciate it’s tough but no. Skype or zoom instead

We're absolutely not planning to drive haha, they would come to us!

@Stircrazyschoolmum good point - due 18th Feb, so yes 2 weeks later would be March, which might well be different!