Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

@CKBJ

I posted this on another thread:

I think schools including nurseries should only offer places for NHS/Care/Police/Fire staff for the next 2-3weeks. As this would stop many people with children from working it would become a very harsh lockdown for 2-3weeks and therefore disrupt the covid transmission. Yes work places will suffer, including those that are critical, however with the way numbers are increasing it calls for drastic action. This should be known as Total Lockdown,we then revert back to the current lockdown and as soon as possible (End Feb/Mar) move the country back down the tier system.

I'm glad you are so proud of your post you have posted it on more than one thread! Your idea has many flaws though, how about school staff/ delivery drivers/shopping pickers/essential retail staff/transport workers/utilities engineers etc etc - should they all down tools for your 'harsh lockdown'?

I was thinking this morning what are key workers over and above nhs /police/fire services and there are a lot .

You need rubbish collection, although ours has been reduced
IT support
Plumbers for emergencies
Supermarkets and deliveries
Care workers
Manufacturing for medical items
Petrol stations

It goes on and on .

Schools are just providing child care for those people really , but the list is long.

In some countries there are curfews and you literally can not go out of the door unless it’s for work or food or child care . We don’t appreciate the extra freedom we have and it’s terrible if employers and members of the public are abusing . With the new variant spreading so fast perhaps there will be more restrictions.

I must say where I am people are being very compliant and except for food shopping the town was empty this morning.

@Mistlewoeandwhine it's difficult as I'm nhs but I don't think she's seeing the bigger picture. If I bring COVID into my workplace unnecessarily and spread to to the drs, psychologists, pharmacists and OT's, that will really affect everything! I don't care about getting Covid myself (I think I had it last March) and I don't actually like WFH, but I don't see why we're not limiting the people who aren't essential being in the building.

@Pesopasodoble

I agree completely with those saying employers aren't helping. I sent an email to my manager yesterday asking if we could arrange a rota so we could reduce the number of people in the office by a third. She replied to say I needed to 'see the bigger picture' as receptionists, cleaners, nurses can't wfh it would be unfair to let us wfh. That's in complete contrast to what the government are saying! I can do all but 5% of my job from home.

This is why tougher restrictions are inevitable. Too many households mixing, KW guidance is being stretched to the limit (I don’t care what anyone says, it is, I work in a school). However that is because employers are forcing people into work when the really shouldn’t and parents stretch the definition or lose their house.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see it become law, wfh in some way. Takeaways like Costa closing. Also KW places limited to both parents outside the home in very exceptional circumstances.

The prospect horrifies me if I’m honest. Yet I think too many employers are trying it on, so they will be forced to with the state the NHS is in.

I don’t understand why people are abusing the bubble system?

It’s there for a reason .

Not just Michie, C&P from Guardian live feed:

Prof Robert West, a participant in the UK’s Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours (SPI-B), said that, due to the more infectious variant the lockdown should be strengthened, in order to try to get the same result as the first shutdown.

He said the current lockdown rules were “still allowing a lot of activity which is spreading the virus”. Asked if he thinks they should change, he told BBC News:

Yes, I do. Not just me. I think probably most of the people I talk to, epidemiologists, and medical scientists and virologists.

The professor of health psychology at University College London said more children are going to school than in the first lockdown and that schools are “a very important seed of community infection”.

Because we have the more infectious variant, which is somewhere around 50% more infectious than last time round in March, that means that if we were to achieve the same result as we got in March we would have to have a stricter lockdown, and it’s not stricter. It’s actually less strict.

Threads like these baffle me a bit. Maybe I'm naive or live in a compliant area but it's very quiet. Yes people are going out walking and you do see a few groups of more than 2 people who I'm sure are not bubbles. But generally people are only leaving their house to walk/run, food shop or work.

I am on maternity leave however if I wasn't I would be expected to be in an office with 50+ other people. No reason I can't work from home but wouldn't be able to. But that would involve me 'queuing' at petrol stations and being on the road - something many people are moaning about here but are making it sound like everyone is off on a jolly?

Yes.

Cases went up by 300% in one week in several council in the NW.

A major crisis is looming.

@benedicto

I think that since that cafes and takeaways from hospitality should be stopped because while it seems legal to sell from these places, purchasing and consuming these takeaways seems to break all the guidelines (the reasons for leaving your house don't include getting a takeaway so there is no legal way to leave your house to obtain the takeaway). It is a really bizarre situation if it is legal to open your premises to sell something but not legal to leave your home to purchase what they are selling.

It's perfectly legal to leave your home to visit businesses which are open. It's in the government guidelines.

Two girls meeting outside for coffee are not causing this

Not by themselves, no. But, it isn't just them, is it? They are just 2 of several hundred thousand who aren't taking it seriously. The risk is accumulative.

@Itisasecret

Yes I do. One thing I’ve learnt, if it is in the Telegraph it is happening. The fact that they printing that schools are too busy, too many people are in work is mind boggling. The writing is on the wall. It’s a bit worrying if I’m honest.

Really? Everything in the TG is true?

News- literally- to me! (I know many people who write for the Telegraph so I would tend to be more sceptical than you are.):)

Also so many more people out and about now - during March lockdown I could walk my dog down the middle of the street, now there are cars whizzing past every few seconds. The gov are trying to lock the stable door after the horse has already bolted as the fear is gone.

@Crimblecrumble1990

Threads like these baffle me a bit. Maybe I'm naive or live in a compliant area but it's very quiet. Yes people are going out walking and you do see a few groups of more than 2 people who I'm sure are not bubbles. But generally people are only leaving their house to walk/run, food shop or work.

I am on maternity leave however if I wasn't I would be expected to be in an office with 50+ other people. No reason I can't work from home but wouldn't be able to. But that would involve me 'queuing' at petrol stations and being on the road - something many people are moaning about here but are making it sound like everyone is off on a jolly?

You should hear and see what goes on in London.

Friends and family there and the stories are quite shocking- parties, people meeting up, blah blah.

*Friends met up ( unintentially) so blocked a busy end aisle to chat....I asked them to move on but they told me to fuck off and mind my own they weren’t hurting anyone ( people had to get round then leaving a foot or so to squeeze past)

Customer with mask pulled down, one of several I asked to put on correctly but one was rude back*

There was a thread yesterday about people meeting and chatting i supermarkets. The OP was given a bit of a hard time about it because it may be the only contact people have etc. The health of retail workers does not seem to be taken into account by some people.

People should be shopping, on their own whenever possible, for food and any medicines needed. The Easter Eggs, scented candle and bed line can wait!

Retail workers have to be in shops for hours on end, we could all help a little bit by minimising our time in stores and help keep their workplace as safe as possible.

The wording is far too loose this time and employers are using it to take advantage. I’m on the critical worker list now in case the ports get backed up. We deliver furniture for gods sake! Our crews are going in and out of multiple homes, in London and the Home Counties, where there are 1 in 20 infected and no critical care beds. 🤯

We live opposite a costa coffee and kfc. The carpark is as busy as it was pre lockdown, loads of people park up, meet another car, usually women with dcs, or an older and a younger women, queue outside costa coffee and then set off up the road for a walk on the trans pennine trail at the top of the road.

All possibly legal, they could be single parents who have formed a bubble for instance. And I feel so sorry for dcs, non of this is their fault and they have given up so much. But these aren't essential journeys and the coffee definitely isn't essential, anyone can walk for an hour without a coffee!

Then you have people going into work when they could wfh. Which puts pressure on schools. I've been shopping this morning, a dad with 4 kids, 2 of them 15/16, 2 about 4-6. While I'm sure no one choses to drag 4 kids supermarket shopping I did mentally question why he didn't leave at least the older ones at home. I left my 16 yr old watching the 7 yr old. And on the same retail park Dunelm was open, poundland was open, next and argos open for click and collect. B and q was heaving, queueing to get in. And boots looked busy as well.

All legally open, but it encourages people out and about. The problem is striking the balance between economy and health. I've not seen anyone break the rules but people are more complacent this time definitely.

I'm a teacher. We had 3 children in our whole phase coming into the hub in march. Now we have over 20 in a class. It's ridiculous and selfish. The council aren't checking like they used to, where they would need proof a parent couldn't work at home. Now it's like a normal school day and it's scary.

@Pesopasodoble

I agree completely with those saying employers aren't helping. I sent an email to my manager yesterday asking if we could arrange a rota so we could reduce the number of people in the office by a third. She replied to say I needed to 'see the bigger picture' as receptionists, cleaners, nurses can't wfh it would be unfair to let us wfh. That's in complete contrast to what the government are saying! I can do all but 5% of my job from home.

All the more reason your employer should rota the people that can wfh.

If one person unknowingly comes in positive then his whole staff will have to isolate/ or be too ill to work.

At least with a rota there would be some not in contact and could keep coming in/keep working.

I work in an office (NHS) and can do my job from home, so I am, whilst also trying to home school like many others.
Our school has said both parents must be keyworkers to get the school place, and also unable to work from home. Which I agree with, however our work has emailed everyone to say they are entitled to the school place and to bring it up with the LA if your school is saying differently.
Also, no one has made any attempt to identify which roles (in my department) can be carried out from home. Its down to individuals who may feel under some pressure from colleagues or line managers to be in the office.
So this is an NHS Trust, who could be doing more to reduce the numbers in the office, and reduce the numbers if children in school. Rather they are encouraging people to use a key worker space if they are entitled to it. I'm wondering if the stance will change on this because they have previously 'reminded' staff that whilst it might be within the rules to do xyz, all mixing contributes to the spread and so on.

I don't understand why the rule isn't both parents must be key workers and unable to wfh.

*or some possibly be too ill to work.

We need a proper lockdown like the first one.

There's normal traffic here, car parks of office buildings are almost full, lots of people wandering around the indoor shopping centre even though there's not much open and sitting on chairs inside eating lunch or drinking coffee (which of course means taking your mask off).

I work for a charity and we're put under pressure to work in the office because we are classified as key workers even though we're on computers and phones all day and everything we do can be done from home. No screens, no masks in the office, we haven't even had any bloody cleaners in since the lockdown in March!

Nobody cares anymore, They're overcondident because we've got a vaccine. I'm as fed up as anyone else with the lockdown, but it is desperately needed now and the more people comply with the rules, the sooner we'll be able to lift it.

We have an artisan outdoor market here every Sunday. It's so busy as there aren't any restaurants open for brunch so the affluent people are a bit bored. Also there is a big park nearby so it's full of children running around, parents chatting sourdough, no social distancing. I think we are fighting against human nature, people want to socialise, people want an escape from the monotony of the week especially as we are mostly home working/ schooling. Parents want their children to socialise and to meet others to moan to about lack of sleep. I have every sympathy for those who miss our old lives and, without meaning to cause offence, don't stick to the spirit of the guidance.
What's the solution? You close the market. Those small businesses go bust, the customers move onto another thing to base their plans around. I worry that we're trying to fight something inevitable unless we get really strict i.e. police presence. And I disagree with that so I'm torn.

Boris needs to have a backbone and instigate a proper lockdown. I am sick of getting texts from my local ambulance service about their capabilities being overloaded, so please only call us in an actual emergency. It makes me feel unsafe, anyone could have a medical emergency at any time.

The guidance now states;

We know that every school will have a different number of children of critical workers who need to attend. It is important that on-site provision is provided for these pupils, and there is no limit to numbers of these pupils who may attend and schools should not limit attendance of these groups. This is because we are reducing overall social contact across areas and the country rather than individually by each institution.

The definition of vulnerable has now changed, to include those pupils without tech. If this guidance stands, we will need to invite about 90% of pupils back in next week (at my school). All our teachers will then need to send back their own kids full time too.

Many schools will not really be closed to the majority.

There is not any lockdown where I live.
People are out in shops, I saw 6! Mums with prams in a park chitchat happily

Also on my local FB people say that shops like B&M or Poundshops etc have queues outside.
Its a joke!!!!
Im home and from where I live I can see my whole road, how people get people visiting, popping in etc.