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Original poster

Preschool closing - can they do this?

47 replies

ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 20:46

My daughter attends a preschool 6 hours a week. They emailed us on Monday asking whether we want to send out child in during lockdown - I said "no" as my daughter will be attending nursery and I dont want to mix settings.

Anyway. They emailed us today saying that they have contacted their staff and 90% of them are unable to work because they have vulnerable relatives or are home schooling their own children. Therefore they are not opening and the staff will be furloughed.

Is this right? Can they just choose not to open and claim furlough? The parents who cant work because they are homeschooling would be eligible for a school place as they're keyworkers, wouldnt they?

It doesn't actually affect me, as I said my daughter won't be going in, but I find it very strange and wondering if anyone has come across the same thing?

OP posts:
onemachine · 08/01/2021 20:49

My childcare is also now closed and I’m a key worker. Hoping I can find another setting who isn’t so selfish as if everywhere closed because they wanted to not take the risk we would have no healthcare, Utilities, food, fuel...

Viciouslybashed · 08/01/2021 20:51

Clearly they can do it as they have.

Dementedswan · 08/01/2021 20:52

I don't blame them tbh

Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 20:53

@Viciouslybashed

Clearly they can do it as they have.
Ok, semantics. Can they legally do this as claim furlough or is it fraud.
OP posts:
Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 20:54

@Dementedswan

I don't blame them tbh
Incidentally, only 12 of the usual 50 children said they would take up a place so the numbers would be very limited to only a few children per day.
OP posts:
cadburyegg · 08/01/2021 20:54

There’s more demand on key worker places this time so not all key workers can get a place in schools. Or some schools say that both parents have to be key workers to get a place so as a result the key worker goes on furlough / stops working because the other parent earns more

bloodywhitecat · 08/01/2021 21:00

If it's not financially viable for them to be open I don't see that they have another choice.

snackarella · 08/01/2021 21:01

Yes it's legal to claim furlough as the alternative is make everyone redundant.
Furlough is there to support businesses so they can reopen / keep jobs open when this ends.

Head of HR so I deal with this daily

christmasathomeagain · 08/01/2021 21:03

If they don't have the staff what do you expect them to do? Many places only give key worker places if both parents are key workers. If the other parent isn't a key worker but work place open or working from home but can't supervise children then what can they do? Nursery workers are usually low paid so if the other parent earns more and its a choice of unpaid leave then nursery job goes.

Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 21:04

@snackarella

Yes it's legal to claim furlough as the alternative is make everyone redundant. Furlough is there to support businesses so they can reopen / keep jobs open when this ends.

Head of HR so I deal with this daily

But the alternative is to open and the people who have kids at home or who have vulnerable relatives have to come in to work or take unpaid leave, like they would if they worked in a shop or some other essential job.

They are financially able to open, they would recieve funding for the usual children on role even if they choose not to attend.

OP posts:
Freddiefox · 08/01/2021 21:06

Because they can’t run on a loss for long if they only have 12 out of 50 turn up I’m not sure they have much choice.

Ohdoleavemealone · 08/01/2021 21:06

My mum works in a nursery that closed during the first lockdown because only 3 kids were attending and they couldn't afford to stay open.

Freddiefox · 08/01/2021 21:07

They are financially able to open, they would recieve funding for the usual children on role even if they choose not to attend. This isn’t true of all councils. Ours isn’t paying unless child is attending.

Myusername2015 · 08/01/2021 21:09

They can’t claim funding this time round for children not attending the setting (unlike the first lockdown) so I can absolutely see such low numbers attending would make it financially unviable let alone the lack of staff.

Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 21:13

They have stated that their reason for closing is because their staff are homeschooling or have vulnerable relatives. Nothing about funding. In fact they basically told us not to send our kids in, if it was a funding issue they would be encouraging more children. They could also part tune furlough to cover the days of those children who did want to attend.

I have contacted them about funding to see if our funding can be transferred to a different childcare setting, and was told no because they have already applied for the funding. No mention of not getting the funding if my child doesn't attend.

OP posts:
OddBoots · 08/01/2021 21:13

There isn't absolute clarity but various LAs have told settings that the government won't pay funding if parents choose not to send children - if more than one or two parents decide not to sent their child in then closing and furloughing might be the only way they can save their business.

OddBoots · 08/01/2021 21:15

(the funding issue has only come in the past 24 hours so wouldn't have been known about when they first contacted you)

Lavanderrose · 08/01/2021 21:20

Yes of course they can legally close early years is a non-statutory service. Preschools and nurseries can legally apply for furlough using the percentage of monies from fee paying parents. They will have also had to notify Ofsted and their local authority of their closure. Their local authority will most likely stop their funding due to their closure.

Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 21:23

@Lavanderrose

Yes of course they can legally close early years is a non-statutory service. Preschools and nurseries can legally apply for furlough using the percentage of monies from fee paying parents. They will have also had to notify Ofsted and their local authority of their closure. Their local authority will most likely stop their funding due to their closure.
Thank you for this information. All that makes sense to me. So if only 10% of their income comes from fee paying parents, could they only claim 10% furlough?
OP posts:
Lavanderrose · 08/01/2021 21:23

You should be able to use your funding elsewhere, since they have closed they shouldn’t still be funded.

Lavanderrose · 08/01/2021 21:24

* Thank you for this information. All that makes sense to me. So if only 10% of their income comes from fee paying parents, could they only claim 10% furlough?*

Yes that’s exactly right.

Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 21:29

@Lavanderrose

You should be able to use your funding elsewhere, since they have closed they shouldn’t still be funded.
I asked them for this and they said they can't transfer the funding as they already applied for it 🤷‍♀️
OP posts:
StacySoloman · 08/01/2021 21:52

You should still have time to transfer funding - in my LA the cut off is mid January. So you need to be quick about finding a new setting.

Original poster
ChocOrange1 · 08/01/2021 21:59

@StacySoloman thank you, my daughter already attends a second setting so I'm hoping to increase her hours there

OP posts:
Hardbackwriter · 08/01/2021 22:04

This is, I think, a key reason why nurseries weren't restricted to keyworker/vulnerable in the first place - unlike schools they're mostly private businesses so they won't stay open for a handful of children if that means they run at a loss (lots didn't in the first lockdown). If you close nurseries to everyone else it leaves a lot of key workers without childcare.