Can my employer make me apply for key worker place?

[gonewiththegin]

First time poster looking for advice please.

Both DH and I are key workers and can both work from home.

My employer (new department from first lockdown) is insisting I cannot work effectively from home and should be taking up the key worker place in school. I don’t feel the have any right to make those decisions for my child and was just wondering if anyone has any knowledge/similar experience.

Thanks

I disagree with your stance OP

Your employer has said it is business critical for you to go into work . You are entitled to keyworker place at school for your DC. So you could attend work. You said yourself that your performance was impacted last time and your DH's.

I think you'd be getting into risk of dismissal and poor performance meetings if you decide attending your workPlace doesn't apply to you as you'd prefer to keep your children home. You can stay home if you are CEV during lockdown, but otherwise should attend work, albeit it slightly more flexibly as usual out of school hours (before & after) school club childcare probably isn't available.

Your argument is that you worked from home last time and can do your job WfH.

However your employers have decided their team cannot effectively wfh, having looked at performance indicators last time- Lockdown1 was new situation, they've had chance to evaluate since. Anyway that will be their argument.

The other side of argument is, "is it fair on your DCs who could homeschool but not as well" and "is it fair on school teachers who have to cover everyone that needs keyworker place, when potentially you could work wfh but less effectively if your government dept decided to let you" , isn't an argument about wider impacts that your employer is interested in having.

My employer has not asked me to return to the office, sorry if I gave that impression. They are asking me to use the key worker place despite the letter saying it should not be used if WFH. My child is 5 and will need help throughout the day. I proposed flexibility for myself for the first half of my day (3 hours!) and would be more then able to make up for that in the last half of when DH took over. It’s the proposal of flexibility that they are stating would make me ineffective.

I’ve had an appraisal since the first lockdown and there has never been any issue with my performance.

I believe that you are entitled to ask for unpaid leave if you wish to spend your time homeschooling instead of working? Because seriously - you cannot do both at the same time. And the harsh answer to that is that it is not your employers problem what you do with your children. It is, however, your problem, if they dismiss you for failure to attend work or inadequate performance.

I'm sorry, but whilst I do sympathise with the problems that parents are having, those of us managing public services are also really struggling both to maintain effective services and be fair to everyone after nearly a year of this. We went into the first lockdown, as many did, thinking we just have to get through a few weeks of this. A few weeks of "managing" with stuff is one thing. 10+ months is something different.

Even without throwing home schooling / child care into the mix, not a single member of my department would tell you that they work fully as effectively (or as happily) from home. And we have always had home working for some of the time as an option and used it. But full time home working is often not as effective - human interaction is part of what helps people work effectively. If you are then also dividing your attention between work and childcare you are not working effectively. Nor are you doing childcare or schooling effectively.

As public services, we are not allowed to furlough. We are still expected to do our jobs, and not doing so is not an option. And it is not fair on colleagues when some people are not able to do their job effectively because they are doing something else that is not their job. Your colleagues didn't sign up for pulling your weight when you look after your children.

Public service jobs usually do have the advantage of being able to allow people to choose to take unpaid leave. which many employers don't offer. That is what we have to offer - if you are doing homeschooling or childcare (and this includes when working from home) then you cannot also say you are working - you must work flexibly (with your managers agreement), take annual leave or take unpaid leave. In the first lockdown we had a little more flexibility and could give some (a minimum amount of) paid special leave for unforeseen circumstances. But no longer.

I'm sorry, but I am afraid I agree. You cannot simultaneously do your job and provide childcare /schooling. If the experience of your employer is that this has led to poor performance and poor service delivery, then they must take action to ensure that doesn't continue. It's crap, but there is little about this time that isn't.

@gonewiththegin

My employer has not asked me to return to the office, sorry if I gave that impression. They are asking me to use the key worker place despite the letter saying it should not be used if WFH. My child is 5 and will need help throughout the day. I proposed flexibility for myself for the first half of my day (3 hours!) and would be more then able to make up for that in the last half of when DH took over. It’s the proposal of flexibility that they are stating would make me ineffective.

I’ve had an appraisal since the first lockdown and there has never been any issue with my performance.

Sorry - I cross posted with this update. I do not understand what you are saying. You are proposing that your work half a day instead of the whole day, and do most of your work in the second half of the day? That doesn't seem to be flexible working. Not by our definition of it. Flexible working is that you do your full hours, giving it your full attention, but over different hours. So are you proposing that you work through the evebing as well to make up your hours?

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady thank you I think I will need to speak to the grade 7 but also sent off an email to the union this morning.

The department I left (not my choice, team transfer as manager left) is giving everyone the same flexibility as in March and the workload is the same but this particular senior has decided not to accommodate anyone in these circumstances. It seems unfair to have such a rigid stance and not look at the provisions that I can put in place. I am only part time and I can work longer throughout the day to ensure my work load is completed and to my usual standard. The business is not allowing me to do so. That is where I believe they are being difficult.

@Moondust001I am saying the last 3 hours of my shift would be uninterrupted however the first I may have to use my break early to help DC. The workload can be done over 8am-8pm and it really makes no difference in which time frame I complete my full hours so long as my work of its usual standard

Feel like I’m in a parallel universe. The Government have told everyone to stay at home and work for home unless they absolutely can not. They’ve closed schools and only those whose parents can’t work from home plus vulnerable children should be in. This is a Government Dept and this is being mandated by law by The Government.
The numbers of infections are huge and we are meant to be doing everything we can to reduce those.

[quote gonewiththegin]@Moondust001I am saying the last 3 hours of my shift would be uninterrupted however the first I may have to use my break early to help DC. The workload can be done over 8am-8pm and it really makes no difference in which time frame I complete my full hours so long as my work of its usual standard[/quote]
Right, sorry, but unless I am misunderstanding, you are being unreasonable. I would (as in the rules permit) allow you to do childcare in the morning. You would not be allowed to do both simultaneously (and we didn't allow that even in the first lockdown). So no "working and taking breaks for childcare stuff". I'd let you have the morning off. You would then work all your hours in the afternoon and into the evening if necessary. That is what flexibility is. You cannot supervise a 5 year old and work at the same time. Quite apart from anything else, I can't begin the enumerate the risk in that plan - and the employer agreeing to it would be making them liable. Even in the first lockdown, my public sector employers were absolutely clear that that would not be permitted.

@Ohbabybab

Feel like I’m in a parallel universe. The Government have told everyone to stay at home and work for home unless they absolutely can not. They’ve closed schools and only those whose parents can’t work from home plus vulnerable children should be in. This is a Government Dept and this is being mandated by law by The Government. The numbers of infections are huge and we are meant to be doing everything we can to reduce those.

It isn't mandated by law - it is guidance. And the OP has clarified that it is not that they can't work from home - they have said that they should, in fact, be working from home, and not doing other stuff whilst working.

People working 9-5 will presumably have to interact with their child after schools hours (in normal circumstances) while working so to say that is not allowed is being totally unrealistic and is exactly what was allowed last time. It’s not childcare, it’s my own child who I am now responsible for home schooling. My local authority’s application states if you are WFH you are not applicable for a place. My employer is saying although I do WFH it’s not effectively combined with home schooling. Which I can’t argue with but they won’t allow me to change my shift, I have proposed this and endless other suggestions to ensure my work load wouldn’t be affected.

OP
Your updates have slightly changed our understanding and clarified further.

So you can do your full hours but by working flexibly on and off over 12 hour period 8-8pm. And you can WFH. You have a Year R /Year1 child at home.

I guess it depends on nature of your keyworker dept work/ business whether work need phone cover and for you to be available to discuss cases & issues at set times with colleagues/ other professionals. For eg whilst I can complete reports in evening, the other health staff I need to talk to won't be available on telephone or quick meetings in evening so it'd hinder my work. It's really frustrating if new working hours never seem to coincide. So many varied depts are likely to have built up backlogs and long waiting lists (for whatever work) due to how long pandemic has gone on for.

(So there's no way I could wfh with a 5 year old at home equally needing my attention who would want to sit on my lap 5 times a day and may burst into my study when I'm on calls)

As your DC is only 5, I'd be inclined to take up keyworker place if your work is time critical. If you can triage it with set clear hours each day - can DH cover DC for the 3 clear hours work wants in afternoon?- and if the more loneworking admin side can be done flexibly at anytime - then that proposal may have legs.

You are right though it's not as clear cut as it seemed when we thought you meant your performance had been hit or that you were being asked to attend workplace to do your role.

I read in the Guardian this morning DofE guidelines were at least one parent who is a critical worker including parents who work from home can access a school space....

But people working 9-5 will complete their full working hours and then interact with their children.

What you're proposing is interacting 9-12 with your child, then working until 5pm. Its 3 hours less work unless you suggest that you're going to complete it in the evening.

I can understand why its frustrating when other areas are being more flexible but unless your 5 year old has seriously unusual levels of maturity there is no way you will be able do any work in those morning hours and you're being disingenuous to suggest you can.

I'm astonished by the responses OP is getting - in every other thread about key worker provision people in her situation using critical worker places at school have been absolutely vilified, called selfish, told that they'll drive up deaths. I've seen people say that parents should accept that they might lose their jobs and just suck it up because we should all be prioritising lives and the NHS over our own individual situations. People are insistent that employers and employees 'just have to manage'. I was told that continuing to send my child to nursery (which is fully open and I pay for!) so I can WFH showed that I just didn't care about the staff at all and that I was contributing to their deaths, and that if I had any sense of social responsibility I'd just do my job while caring for a two year old and that my work should accept that...

Your employer cannot dictate that your child goes into school.

They would, however, be perfectly reasonable to expect you to work, uninterrupted and in full the hours for which you are paid to work since childcare is available to you.

If you work part time, then surely it makes sense for your DH to cover childcare during your working hours, so that you are free of any childcare responsibilities in that period, and for you to cover childcare for the rest of the time, so that he can then get on, uninterrupted with his own work.

If you cannot both work your full hours to a level that is acceptable to your employers then you will need to find childcare. Its up to you whether that would be in school or by some other private arrangement.

You are aware of there are redundancies you’ll be one of the first to go.

Your female
Your already only part time
Your refusing to follow directives.
Your entitled to a key worker place.

Your being difficult because your employment doesn’t suit you

I very rarely would need to use the telephone, the majority of my work is processing. I have on office so while DH takes over home schooling in the afternoon I would have no distractions. Even if DC was to come in to my office I am not on the phone so it wouldn’t affect my work, I imagine this would be difficult to manage of your core role was telephony.

I know in the grand scheme of things I am very lucky to have job security and WFH I just felt that I would be disciplined for not taking the place with it actioned as poor performance when there has never been an issue with my performance. I have spoke with my line manager and the union and they’ve reassured me.

Thank you for all your replies, I do appreciate all points

@Hardbackwriter

I'm astonished by the responses OP is getting - in every other thread about key worker provision people in her situation using critical worker places at school have been absolutely vilified, called selfish, told that they'll drive up deaths. I've seen people say that parents should accept that they might lose their jobs and just suck it up because we should all be prioritising lives and the NHS over our own individual situations. People are insistent that employers and employees 'just have to manage'. I was told that continuing to send my child to nursery (which is fully open and I pay for!) so I can WFH showed that I just didn't care about the staff at all and that I was contributing to their deaths, and that if I had any sense of social responsibility I'd just do my job while caring for a two year old and that my work should accept that...

Yes well MN really isn’t a true reflection of life. Depends what thread your on.

Gonewiththegin

Cross posted with your earlier posts. Can see you have suggested alternative realistic proposals . I guess the difficulty is we don't know nature of your dept's work (nor expect you to share it on MN) so we can't really know if your senior is being reasonable on behalf of your employer or not.

Can you talk with HR about your proposal? That wfh doesn't entitle you to a keyworker school place, a), if that is in school guidance for places & b) if it is that you genuinely believe you can achieve same performance but with flexible hours.
Pull out the guidance!

I'm really sorry to hear how hard it is for everyone with small children, including you OP.

I'm relieved mine were secondary school age when it hit. I'd have drowned otherwise as am entirely on my own with 3DC. And I would have sent them in if need be to school despite risks to me (CEV) as my work is time critical. I did overtime for emergency planning for our service and a few weekend covers at the height of crisis, volunteered to swop my hours / cover shifts when others with small children had crises during lockdowns impacting in their ability to work effectively.

We all pulled together in our team and I never once felt anything other than wanting to help my colleagues who had babies or toddlers /young DC. So I hope your colleagues have found the same kindness towards each other.

I’m going to say that I completely disagree that OP is being difficult. I think best case scenario, she can offer to change her hours and do her job when DH takes over childcare. The department should be making reasonable adjustments and these are not normal times. OP - so sorry you’re being put in this position. Guidelines need to be tightened up. My brother is a civil servant at home for months - I literally can’t see a reason why it is ‘business critical’ to have people mixing in an office and potentially driving up infection rates.

I hope you sort it out.

@Seasaltyhair I am not entitled to a key worker place, the local authority states if you work form home then you aren’t eligible.

@MoltenLasagne I will be working 9-12 alongside DC who will be doing set tasks which I well then mark and go over once I have finished work for the day. I didn’t say anything about working until 5pm. I would work until my tasks were complete for the day.

The overall opinion is that I should take up a place which is the opposite of the local authority guidance and as @Hardbackwriter mentioned all I have seen on posts is how people are selfishly using key worker places when they are not needed.

@gonewiththegin

I very rarely would need to use the telephone, the majority of my work is processing. I have on office so while DH takes over home schooling in the afternoon I would have no distractions. Even if DC was to come in to my office I am not on the phone so it wouldn’t affect my work, I imagine this would be difficult to manage of your core role was telephony.

I know in the grand scheme of things I am very lucky to have job security and WFH I just felt that I would be disciplined for not taking the place with it actioned as poor performance when there has never been an issue with my performance. I have spoke with my line manager and the union and they’ve reassured me.

Thank you for all your replies, I do appreciate all points

Cross posted again!

I hope posting on MN has helped you hone your logical reasoning, even if In a necessary vague way on here.

It sounds like you have a good solid argument for your HR team for proposing flexible working hours during school closure and lockdown OP.

So I'm now "Team OP"!!

Compose an email to HR - all gov delta are scared of HR!! - stating the facts and your proposal and asking them to consider it.

Depts not delta 🙄