If the vaccine doesn't stop you from spreading the virus...

[aliasname]

If the vaccine doesn't stop you from spreading the virus, then what happens to those people who are unable to have the vaccine? If it keeps mutating every year, then we'll never achieve herd immunity, and unvaccinated people will always be vulnerable to catching it?

Or is the plan that this is inevitable, but there will be fewer cases & therefore less pressure on the health services? Like flu, maybe.

Fewer cases I guess.
Anyway, I really don't understand that it doesn't stop the spreading of the virus, don't all vaccines stop the spread? Is there a vaccine in this world that works that way: you don't get sick but pass it on anyway?

Or is the plan that this is inevitable, but there will be fewer cases & therefore less pressure on the health services? Like flu, maybe

This is it exactly. We were never going to try and completely eradicate covid and the intention with the current vaccines is to reduce the illness itself to something much milder for those who are at risk of being ill enough to need hospital support.

If the vaccines also have the happy effect of reducing transmission then that would be brilliant but there’s no data at all to back up that that’s a likely outcome.

It’s not the first vaccine that works by reducing severity of illness which is a big part of why we’ve only ever managed to eradicate small pox and no other diseases.

@piscis - I think TB is a vaccine that only reduces the individuals illness but doesn’t stop you being contagious.

I find that reassuring personally because we’ve done alright with ‘just’ that.

@Cornettoninja

Or is the plan that this is inevitable, but there will be fewer cases & therefore less pressure on the health services? Like flu, maybe

This is it exactly. We were never going to try and completely eradicate covid and the intention with the current vaccines is to reduce the illness itself to something much milder for those who are at risk of being ill enough to need hospital support.

If the vaccines also have the happy effect of reducing transmission then that would be brilliant but there’s no data at all to back up that that’s a likely outcome.

It’s not the first vaccine that works by reducing severity of illness which is a big part of why we’ve only ever managed to eradicate small pox and no other diseases.

I guess that is why it's so important to get the vaccine if you can? Thanks for explaining it, I wasn't sure if I was missing something.

I think the more important question is why are people trying to force everyone to have it and spewing blood about people that don’t “if this is the case”

[quote Cornettoninja]@piscis - I think TB is a vaccine that only reduces the individuals illness but doesn’t stop you being contagious.

I find that reassuring personally because we’ve done alright with ‘just’ that.[/quote]
I thought the TB vaccine stopped the individual from getting it entirely! Every day is a school day here ☺️

@Cornettoninja

Or is the plan that this is inevitable, but there will be fewer cases & therefore less pressure on the health services? Like flu, maybe

This is it exactly. We were never going to try and completely eradicate covid and the intention with the current vaccines is to reduce the illness itself to something much milder for those who are at risk of being ill enough to need hospital support.

If the vaccines also have the happy effect of reducing transmission then that would be brilliant but there’s no data at all to back up that that’s a likely outcome.

It’s not the first vaccine that works by reducing severity of illness which is a big part of why we’ve only ever managed to eradicate small pox and no other diseases.

That’s a very good point, thanks @Cornettoninja

@fembot23 please don’t treat that as absolute fact, it was something I’ve picked up this year and would have to look up again. There’s a fair bit of debate that exists (pre-pandemic) around developing a better TB vaccine since the one we’ve got is actually a bit shit and technology has improved a lot.

This is the same internet education that taught me that there are already corona virus vaccines in regular use in chickens and cows - it’s what made me so hopeful for our vaccines and able to ignore the ‘but there’s never been a vaccine for corona viruses’ crowd.

[quote Cornettoninja]@fembot23 please don’t treat that as absolute fact, it was something I’ve picked up this year and would have to look up again. There’s a fair bit of debate that exists (pre-pandemic) around developing a better TB vaccine since the one we’ve got is actually a bit shit and technology has improved a lot.

This is the same internet education that taught me that there are already corona virus vaccines in regular use in chickens and cows - it’s what made me so hopeful for our vaccines and able to ignore the ‘but there’s never been a vaccine for corona viruses’ crowd.[/quote]
Still interesting and helpful for anxious Annie’s like me ☺️

@Uganytono thing is if the vaccine enables people to who would have only got covid mildly to fight it off quickly they’re less likely to be contagious at all. Every level of effectiveness counts towards digging us out of this mess from taking the immediate pressure off the NHS to being able to live our lives longer term. We’re all invested in this in some way or another.

That said, it’s absolutely your right to refuse it. I would only suggest that now’s possibly not the time to expect a rational discussion about it with strangers.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-55553633

Whitty talks about risk, vaccine and restrictions here. De-risking and what society can tolerate both come up.

If the CEV, who might well end up in hospital and are at highest risk of dying, have a much lower risk that has to be good for us all

The TB vaccine (BCG) is a completely different type of vaccine and isn’t even given out in a lot of countries (eg France, Germany, Australia) beciase it’s not considered effective enough. Even here it’s not only given to at risk populations based on family background or occupation. It shouldn’t be used as an example to compare with the covid vaccines.

I'm a front line worker and apparently 'front of the queue' for the vaccine.

I've already had Covid and felt tired for a couple of days.

Surely my vaccine should be given to someone who's actually at risk of having direr systems aka an 80-year-old before a fit and healthy 20-something?

If the vaccine prevents symptoms then won't it spread more easily as no-one will know they have it? Especially if it is airborne so not reliant on spreading by coughs and sneezes. So will we get to the stage where e.g. most children and unvaccinated adults will get it?

But I think the point is that hospitals won't be overwhelmed so if you are one of the unlucky unvaccinates ones who does get serious symptoms hospitals will be able to treat you properly? And those who are vaccinated won't get serious symptoms that need hospital care.

I was just trying to illustrate how vaccines are used and that 100% sterility of the virus isn’t necessary to ease us out of the restrictions we’re in.

TB popped into my head precisely because it’s a bit crap, but it does have a (limited) place in controlling the disease. Tbh I didn’t realise before the pandemic that Japan has a massive problem with TB and that’s one of the reasons they’ve been ahead of the game in some respects with a track and trace system. Again, it’s not directly comparable, but it does illustrate that these measures have a proven track record.

I thought we didn’t know yet if the vaccine will stop people spreading the virus. We will find this out in time. Hopefully it will.

@Catsneezies I think most of us should expect to get it the same way we would flu. The plan is for most of the adult population to get vaccinated
over the next year to eighteen months though.

I’ve been offered a vaccine through work but won’t be taking it up - mostly because I’m planning on not being there by the time my second jab would be due () but I did also consider the fact that I don’t really need it but my DP really does. If I’m raising my chances of passing it on without showing symptoms myself (and therefore having no clue he should try and keep away from me) then it makes more sense to wait until he’s had the vaccine.

If there was scientific evidence that the vaccine made it more likely you could asymptomatically pass on the virus we would not be prioritising care and nhs staff. That would make things more dangerous for patients.

The reason we’re being told that it might not stop people passing it on is because it’s very difficult to prove to the contrary. Logistically, in the time frame they’ve had, how could scientists prove that vaccinated patients typically don’t pass the virus on?

NHS staff are prioritised so that hospitals don't have to close and people die on the streets. Nothing to do with whether they pass the virus on or not.

@Beachybeach you can have it more than once, especially as there are different versions. All staff who have tested positive still should be vaccinated and as an nhs staff member it’s really important you don’t accidentally provide misinformation and badging yourself front line nhs makes people listen to you more. I’ve been working with the vaccine clinic on and off since December and this is the official advice.

Flu vaccine stops you passing on flu. They can’t make that claim yet for the Covid vaccines as there’s not enough evidence. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t stop it, they just don’t know... and also don’t want those who have had the vaccine to run around mask free and partying while others stay locked down making a two tier society.

I’d hedge a bet that it will stop you passing it on. It seems unlikely these vaccines would work differently to the many others out there. Particularly the Oxford one, a more traditional vaccine. There just hasn’t been enough time yet..

The plan is for most of the adult population to get vaccinated
over the next year to eighteen months though.

I know this is good news, but that timeline makes my heart sink. Tony Blair seems to think that if we as a country threw everything at this, we could get it done far faster.

It took two centuries to get rid of smallpox