Repeating school academic year

[RoseHipps]

If this lockdown goes on for longer than Feb half term, which is highly likely, would it be feasible for the children to repeat the entire school year? My child had perhaps 6 months in reception last year and it could work out less than that if they don’t go back until after Easter this year as speculated.

1. In many European countries where the starting age for school is 6/7 they have a state maintained nursery/kindergarten system. Mostly running from 6 months to 3 yrs, then 3-6/7year olds.

UK govs and society through the 20th century didn't put emphasis on getting women into the workforce.

1. Repeat for everyone. Hypotheticals... Let's say it happens. What then with the kids who are not struggling? Let's assume that 50% do perfectly ok. What will they be doing in the repeat year - get bored and lose all motivation.

In many countries their is system in place where if kid doesn't meat the criteria to pass in a subject they have to repeat the year. This is a concept that I don't think is in anyone's head in the UK. But it would be useful here. Assess all kids and those who need to be held back a year get held back, rest go as normal. For this to be even considered there would need to be a big audit/data mining in dfe to see how many kids this would actually mean, and if it would mean that there are certain year groups that would be overwhelmed.

Any large shakeup is going to have pros and cons. I think any of them will require a lot more than just repeating a school year - even 'just' that will require system changes across multiple areas, financial support, and more.

I don't think we should use US systems as an example of holding back both because there is a major difference between 1-2 in a class to a large section or all of a cohort and that system hasn't been shown to be have many of the perceived benefits - children held back are more likely to drop out, grades are lower, more likely to be disruptive and so on compared to equally struggling children who weren't help back (shocker, just repeating the same information to a child again in the next year doesn't really fix anything) and there are social issues in high school when you have a graduating class with 17.5-year-olds and nearly 20-year-olds (and schools that may have those nearly 20 year olds with 13 or even 11 year olds). Also, there are a lot of difference like mainstream integration and special schools not being available in all areas still (it's not uncommon in many areas for those with significant learning to just be segregated off into one classroom for their entire time there).

Methods that actively investigate and focus on what is causing not to pass while keeping them with their peers show a lot more benefits, I think, but really, I think the curriculum has become so overbloated with things everyone needs to do that we really need a reconsideration of what we want education and schools to be and how to facilitate that rather than continuing piling on.

British children have to be in education till 18.

That depends on where in the UK someone is

My 16 year old said the same thing, if schools aren't going back until the late spring or later, write off this year & start again in September
I don’t see how that will help? Your 16yo has two more years at school. Repeating a year would mean spending 3 more years at school and not leaving till age 19. Are you suggesting we permanently raise the school leaving age to 19?

@SpikySara

It would also help raising the school leaving age, again in the majority of the world you either can’t leave school till 18 This happened years ago. British children have to be in education till 18.

Education or training yes - school no!

You go and look at the uptake of a levels and equip any compared to those that do leavers certs, Ireland, high school certs in Australia etc think you’ll be amazed how many dont

Yes everyone should repeat a year even colleges and university. Nursery and reception should be delayed a year The children in education cannot be failed just to avoid delaying a year of reception starters.

I don’t know what the answer is but how many suggesting the year is repeated have actually done this in reality? I did for Year 13 as had been ill a lot. Miserable experience and ultimately I dropped out.

Yep I have!

And that’s rather different @FoolsAssassin being the only one repeating a year is hard

The whole or majority of the class doing it is very diffrerent

I still think it’s a quite grim and I know loads of DC who really wouldn’t want to do that, including my DS. Can’t stress enough though I don’t actually know what the answer is .

I see all this about what about my child he is ready to move up thats why I said change term dates so new school year starts in Jan or the kids that are well above the rest to move up and the kids struggling yo remain in the same year, I can say though out of my ds year group of 90 kids about 10 would be ready to move up about 50 are behind and the others that my ds is years behind due to learning delays, so move the 10 kids up and give the other 80 a chance to catch up,

SpikySarah Raising the school leaving age to 19 would help the jobs market, don't forget that the retirement age has been increased to 67 & rising meaning that there are less vacancies for school & University leavers. Spread A levels over 3 years & include some form of either voluntary work or music, drama, arts & crafts not studied for exams but to give another interest, or raise the school starting age to 6 & provide more places in nurseries & preschools. My ds went to preschool from the term he turned 3 & started school when he was 4 years 8 months as the school he went to only had 1 entry point per year. He really struggled his year in reception, he was only just properly finding his feet in preschool when it was time to start school. If he had been able to start school a year later he would have settled down & managed a lot easier.

Spread A levels over 3 years & include some form of either voluntary work or music, drama, arts & crafts not studied for exams but to give another interest, or raise the school starting age to 6 & provide more places in nurseries & preschools

Do you have any connections with Ireland @Nat6999 ?

Because what you’ve just said is how it works in Ireland,

Starting age is flexible between 4 and 6, most start the year they turn 5, and in most secondary schools you have to be 12 by the January of your first year (there’s 8 years of primary rather than the 7 in the uk)

And then after the junior certificate (lower secondary exams taken at 15/16 like GCSEs) there’s transition year, which is for exactly that extended work experience, community work, enterprise projects, a chance to get in to drama etc. Now I wonder if there’s any Irish parents reading this thread because I think transition year is sometimes more often than not seen as a bit of a doss, but then leavers is 2 years, and thats expected.

My point is your suggestion definately works

So September:
N1 (2 year olds) has 12 existing plus 12 new kids. They're now 3 and 2. Class could accommodate but need extra staff
N2 (3 year olds) has 30 existing, and 18 new kids. They're now 4 and 3. Need an extra room and staff.
Reception (4 year olds) has 30 existing and a handful of new starts who never went to nursery. They're mainly 5 with a handful of 4 year olds. Class can just about stretch of we abolish the 30 rule.
Year 1 (5 year olds) has 30 existing and 1 new. They're all 6 except the new one who never did reception. See above re 30 rule.

So our single form entry school needs at least 1 extra class room, and several years with intakes over 30. Some of the kids would have had no prior schooling, some will have had lots (good home schooling) and some a mixed bag. So school will have to accomodate all their learning needs.

Secondary schools are fine for 6-8 years and then will have the oversized years but probably have more space anyway. Primary schools can now sack their extra teachers.

However kids are now having to stop on until 19, and child benefit etc will need to be paid until then too. Presumably once the bulk year passes, it will revert to 18

In 12-14 years there will be a significantly greater number of students applying which l, go en it's unlikely universities will increase numbers but this will likely impact for much longer as students reapply for several years.

Simple.

OR we have faith in teachers to be able to teach students at their different levels, which they already do.
Exam years we accept that some students will choose to repeat the year but it won't be all students so the impact on higher education will be less significant

• we have faith in teachers to be able to teach students at their different levels, which they already do. Exam years we accept that some students will choose to repeat the year but it won't be all students so the impact on higher education will be less significant*

And we do have faith in the teachers, and this is most likely what will happen.

However, looking at other education systems that possiably work better, it’s the systems that are better not necessarily the teaching or teachers, that would allow a more flexibility for summerborns partically.

Tbh the government aren’t going to look at a thread on mumsnet and go oh look let’s change the whole education system it’s just us musing to ourselves

As a TA my opinion is that they should repeat. I can genuinely say I don’t think there are many children who would be at a disadvantage by repeating a year but a huge huge amount at a disadvantage if they don’t. I have a couple of very very able children in my class, probably working about 2 years ahead (we are KS1). They aren’t bored. They are extended outwards not upwards which is what the mastery curriculum is all about. In English, their writing stamina and concepts are extended and maths their reasoning skills. What they do need help with is the playing and social skills which many have struggled with after being off for so long.

I think it’s worth remembering, when we talk about life chances being ruined, that millions of people now retired or close to retirement, left school at fourteen with no qualifications at all. I don’t think this is something to aim for, but I do think lots of them turned out just fine and has productive and prosperous lives. I think maybe we need instead to look at increasing opportunities for adult lifelong education. In fact, I think huge amounts of the last labour manifesto are looking pretty sensible about now.

No way repeat a year. It’s at the top end - year 11, 12, 13. At that age students just want to get on with their lives not repeat a year.

Yes and lots haven't turned out ok. Lots ended up on long term benefits, turning to crime, addiction, ended up with mental health problems.

I missed a lot of schooling due to health problems. Many would say I turned out ok, however if I'd completed my formal education I'd have done a lot better.

It isn't easy to continue learning once you're an adult. Responsibilities get in the way.

No way would my Y13 want to do a Y14 he wants to get on with the next stage of his life.

But I agree there should be some flexibility for those who do want to resit a year. And as @Noellodee (or as well as) sort out adult education options. There used to be really good options to do GCSEs and A levels at FE colleges, I did GCSE Italian at night school in 2000-2001 but then the funding gradually started to dry up. This would be the ideal time to put funding back into FE colleges - they say they want to "level up" - well invest in education.

@ihearttc

As a TA my opinion is that they should repeat. I can genuinely say I don’t think there are many children who would be at a disadvantage by repeating a year but a huge huge amount at a disadvantage if they don’t. I have a couple of very very able children in my class, probably working about 2 years ahead (we are KS1). They aren’t bored. They are extended outwards not upwards which is what the mastery curriculum is all about. In English, their writing stamina and concepts are extended and maths their reasoning skills. What they do need help with is the playing and social skills which many have struggled with after being off for so long.

At KS1 that might be possible. At the top of KS2 a primary teacher can't suddenly turn into a secondary school teacher. I think I would have to HE ds if he had to repeat year 6. He has completed the yr 6 curriculum for English and Maths for his 11 plus. He was already bored in school, he is ready for a new challenge. He wasn't bored in KS1 because he could happily read the Hobbit while his friend read Biff Chip and Kipper.

I support this as an idea but logistically it would be a nightmare. You can say kids now start school a year later, but what happens the the ones who were due to start and now can’t? Unless you quickly build and recruit more nurseries there wouldn’t be room. And how would it be funded? Parents haven’t accounted for an extra year of nursery, the government would have to subsidise. At the other end, would kids have to stay in school then until 19? And what happens to the universities in ho then wouldn’t have a whole year group? The government would need to pay for that too.