Hospital patients refusing to wear masks

[Bloodybridget]

Reading the i newspaper this morning, there's a column by an advanced clinical practitioner, working in A&E, where she says "What I can't understand is people who refuse to acknowledge that Covid is a danger. Some patients won't wear masks in hospital. We ask them to, for the sake of others, and they say: "I don't believe in Covid, so I don't need to wear a mask."

I get that this must be a tiny minority of patients, but honestly, should hospitals allow mask refusers to stay on the premises, endangering staff and other patients? Can't they just say, whatever you believe, you have to wear one? Any HCPs here come across this attitude?

Plan I used to be a nurse and NHS workers most certainly do not sign up being willing to sacrifice their lives for the job. Its beyond ridiculous to compare a physio for example to bomb disposal. Give your head a wobble. Christ

I didn’t say ‘sacrifice their lives’ at any point, I basically said that choosing to be a doctor or nurse means you knowingly choose to take the extra risk associated with caring for people sick with even deadly pathogens and thus by making that career choice have accepted the added risk of potentially catching that sickness from them.

The comparison is valid because it’s about accepting a known risk of the profession by choosing it. The law allows for mask exemptions, therefore you have no legal right or moral reason to refuse service as a healthcare professional.

And this thread isn’t about physios or nonurgent healthcare, it’s about A&E- patients in need of accident and emergency healthcare services. Which is largely provided for by nurses and doctors.

I absolutely disagree that doctors and nurses should accept the risk of contracting disease from people who refuse to comply with infection control precautions.

I'm not talking about patients who genuinely can't wear masks. The vast majority of us can.

Other than the very small number of people who cannot wear masks (and there are very few of them-in Japan, virtually everyone wears one, including people with asthma, ASD, most people with learning difficulties), patients should be required to wear a mask and if they refuse there should be some sort of penalty treatment-what kind of treatment I don't know, but there should be something.

Sometimes I think the NHS "100% free at point of use "idea creates a lot of piss takers and entitled people. In most countries, you don't get everything at hospitals 100% free and this perhaps helps people to understand that doctors and nurses are not charity providers, slaves or dogsbodies.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Willyoujustbequiet
I’m sorry but I don’t agree with no mask, no service from NHS. For one, health care is a human right, so service should not be refused to anyone in need. Secondly, if you decide for a career as a healthcare professional, then you are accepting the risks that go with it. Namely that you may be exposed to deadly pathogens. Similar to how people who choose a career in the Armed Forces are accepting the risk they may be exposed to enemy fire/bombs. If you don’t like this risk, then you chose the wrong career. Refusing to provide healthcare in a pandemic because of risk to yourself is like a military person refusing to be deployed to a war zone. It is what they knowingly signed up to and promised to do.[/quote]
I don't agree, I think expecting hcps to treat people who are refusing to wear a mask because that's what they signed up for, is like a military person being expected to go into a war zone without protection, like body armour and a gun. They'd be a sitting duck. It's wrong to expect someone to treat you without a mask on if you're not exempt and simply because you've decided you didn't believe in covid or won't be muzzled by the government in the same way it'd be wrong to send a soldier into a war zone with no protection because you don't believe in guns.
It doesn't just put the hcp at risk, it puts the genuinely exempt at risk too that may follow and are genuinely unable to wear a mask.

Knowing what they are exposed to doesn't make any difference to how it may affect them if caught, they're still humans, and they have a right to work as safely as possible even when still at risk.

I am not debating anything, but I was recently a hospital in patient in a room with 5 beds. This was in Canada. We were told we didn't have to wear a mask in our curtained off area but did have to in the halls.

It was so crowded that one night I became very anxious and tried to wear a mask while sleeping. Usually masks don't bother me. But there was no way I could fall asleep.

Thankfully I have been out of hospital for 2 weeks and no covid.

I cannot wear a mask, and I wear a sunflower lanyard as a way of communicating my exemption. As time is passing by I'm being challenged more and more, the more recent was last week three times in hospital for a medical procedure, by members of the public (I'd been pre-screened for COVID-19 prior to procedure). The people choosing not to wear a mask are making life hell for people like myself who cannot, I limit my movements except where essential as a result.

DS has a hospital appointment next week. He doesn't wear a mask. I am really worried about it especially as it will require an element of physical examination. I am hoping that I can encourage him to pull his top up or something just for those very short periods. (She will need to examine his back and trunk so very close.)

Absolutely what @Afeckinchoo says, it would be ridiculous to equate an hcp not treating someone refusing (not exempt refusing) to someone in the military refusing to deploy, am hoping you're being facetious and don't actually think like this!

@PlanDeRaccordement

And this thread isn’t about physios or nonurgent healthcare, it’s about A&E- patients in need of accident and emergency healthcare services. Which is largely provided for by nurses and doctors.

I think you need to do some reading up on what a physio actually does. If hospital based they're very much involved with the treatment of patients on wards, as part of "prone" turn teams, treating people with lung conditions, attending a&e when a referral is made. They don't just give you a massage when your back aches.

@PlanDeRaccordement nurses and doctors did not sign up to be assaulted by drug and alcohol affected patients either, but this happens in A&E departments daily. We try to reduce the risk by training and having security in the department.
We need to try to reduce the risk of covid by masks and hand hygiene.
My throw away line about beds is just that, frustration, but I would never treat a patient differently or prioritise for that reason.
In a normal day you don’t have time to think about those things, immediate needs first, who needs pain relief and who needs a toilet and which has to wait.

Anyone know why the rule is if they are exempt from mask wearing?

Sorry what the rule is, not why.

I work in a dental hospital and we have dental nurses on the door asking covid questions. About a month ago I had a very aggressive man tower over me and scream in my face and he wasn't wearing a mask. We didn't have security even though this wasn't the first time Sometbing like this had happened and my boss walked past multiple times while this was happening and did nothing 🙃

Agree with no mask, no service, for sure

@JanuaryChill

I can't believe this, truly shocking:

My sister is a nurse who works in a clinic doing very close treatment. A mask refuser stormed out when she sternly asked him to wear one. He then complained. She was made, by her manager, who never sees the public, to apologise and treat him unmasked. Once a week, every week. She is also vulnerable

It should be no mask, no treatment in outpatient appointments unless you have a clinical reason not to wear a mask.

A clear stance on this and clear info on what age upwards needs a mask in hospital would help everybody